Everything you got in here, so we can finish this quickly !
Wanting to see what Ryu players think about the Laura matchup : We need to wait for a thread to be created
Ryu Frame data (when available) : Here
Reserved
Any advice ? I will have some big issues against the Ryus and Kens but Ryu is the most troublesome.
A solid, defensive ryu is a real problem for laura, but there’s something she can do.
You can definitely challenge him to a fireball war. you’ll gain meter and you will inch your way forward. once you have meter, look for opportunities to land an EX elbow. raw vtrigger activation can help you react to the fireball/jump in.
I like to block after the first or second knockdown/mixup just to “feel” the opponent. if he likes to uppercut, punish accordingly.
There’s a 4 frame gap in his st mp, st mp frame trap, so stick out a jab to beat it.
Like most of her matchups, she loses this. Not hard but very 6-4. Those mixups you would normally do with throws and frame-trapping with LP Bolt basically get thrown out the window here due to DP being invincible. Bait moves is the best you can ask for. Try to fireball war but don’t get too happy with it as we know hers is garbage in comparison. Its hard because his normals will also beat out all of hers. Patience is the key…with a rushdown character =)
I disagree with challenging Ryu to a fireball match, if he uses a tatsu and nails you, you’re going to be stuck in a wake up game.
I also want to say that ex elbow is a hit or miss. I’ve played against some Ryu that are only in Silver but they know to randomize their fireballs. A blocked ex elbow is going to send you onto the floor and Laura never wants to go there.
And even after an ex elbow or some other knockdown lands, you’re still in a guessy-state because you fear the wake up DP. I find it to be really hard to stay in an aggressive state against Ryu or any other character with meterless invinc.
you can ex elbow on reaction come on
Same way they can be smart with their fireball you can with yours
I used to get beat with dp all the time, because when I get in , I didn’t want to stop offense and was not punishing them hard enough when they miss, but its a 50/50 and if you be smart you can land much more damage than 1 dp
I disagree that it gets thrown out the window. You can be scared to force you game on them. If he DPs you, you take a chunk of damage, but if you block you make him regret it. And if it’s a really stubborn Ryu, Just keep baiting it til he dies.
Any person that gets punished with 40% life from a blocked DP will stop doing it at least a little bit. You may still need to pick the block sometimes, but even then better thing to do is just sit and block for half a moment, then stick out 5MP or whatever you’re in range for.
It’s far from needing to be thrown out the window, and if you ARE doing that, you’re already giving up a ton of your tools, and basically your entire offense. You need to fight to make him deal with your game. You are absolutely at advantage if you got that close.
What punish do you use against those DP character ?
I mean if I use : “5HP (crush) -> 5HP -> EX Clap -> 5HP/5MK -> v-skill -> repeat -> throw/cmd grab” I am sure to get DP when I reset to dash under or to get close because it is invincible they can use it.
I can try to bait that DP too but then my punishes are not that great compared to the meter I use.
What do you use ?
St.hp(Crush)->Mp Clap -> Cr.Hp->Ex Clap-> St.Hp(Reset) and then 50/50 is my basic punish for all shotos except for a select few where you have to change the clap from MP to HP. I think V trigger really evens the odds a lot. I usually end up playing a lot of neutral, footsies, and using V-trigger to close the gap vs defensive Ryus. Spacing outside of Cr.MK range and whiff punishing it with Lauras Cr.MK -> Ex elbow helps a lot, but its to keep him in check while you walk him towards the corner slowly(every possible second you can get to walk him means a lot). Sometimes its possible to get two V-triggers a match so I try to use it as soon as possible if I get a chance, if not well you have one bar of V-reversal to use sometime in that round.
People keep saying “You win the fireball war”. No; I don’t see that you do. Laura’s fb comes out slow as fuck and if you stop a hado, they can throw out another one. I understand lvl2 takes out two of them, but no way in a fb showdown does Laura win.
Cant win but it’s useful to build meter and a lot of players will lose patience and jump on you so you get something
Really getting annoyed that I can wreck a ranked 500 Ryu/Ken but I get raped against the randoming fucktarded 15000-60000000000 Ryu/Kens.
Not entirely true. Ryu gains so much meter so fast in this game one wrongly placed bolt you’re eating DP CA. I agree that you can bait out the DP but it kind of sucks we have to play it that way.
Again just remember Ryu’s DP will beat everything due to invincibility, let alone if they have meter for an EX. Even her command throw due to its slower startup will get stuffed easily. Really it depends on your opponent. If you’re playing a scrub, expect to block more frequently in your mixup game. If you’re playing a skilled player who doesn’t mash out DPs, be a bit more liberal. You have to play the footsie game with him first before you can even throw out LP bolts to get in, which Ryu excels at in V. Truth be told I prefer V-skilling my way in rather than bolts. While more punishable on paper, Ryu’s tend to react slower to that than to a blocked LP bolt or reaction to LP Bolt
Which part isn’t entirely true? Being at advantage that close? If that’s what you mean, you’re just wrong. If Ryu is forced into a situation where he has to guess with a reversal that can be punished with a HUGE chunk of his life whereas you would only lose a bit, then yeah you ARE at advantage.
And yeah it beats any attack, but that’s why you just do the block or do a delayed hit to see if they’ll do a reversal DP, and if they don’t hit a button and continue. Like, I don’t feel like you actually said anything in contradiction to me, which is “play smart, don’t get greedy” The only thing I disagree’d with was saying your offense gets “thrown out the window” that is a HUGE overstatement and not at all representative of reality.
What in the fuck? So I’m playing this bitch ass Ryu (no salt) and I’m doing cross ups that I know he’s going to block then go into the st.lk frame trap; he only shoryu’s when I’m going to command grab, I’m not pausing in what I’m doing; but somehow; it likes he’s doing it on react; which, no way, right? Was this guy just THAT mad yomi?
TLDR: Can Ryu shoryu a command grab from a frametrap on react?
No, it’s impossible to. Unless he somehow can not only see the command grab within the 6f but also able to input the motions within that period of time, it’s impossible to. Quite frankly, these players are the worst to play against because they are literally random and happen to be lucky on their randomness.
Regarding this match up, I really hate it, not nearly as much as I hate Karin or Cammy but I think it’s easily 6-4. If we’re stuck baiting and they happen to throw tech (which happens), we get thrown and then we’re the ones having to guess (again). Laura already loses a lot of life trying to get in but when she gets in and still has to guess, it’s an uphill battle. It’s true that shotos would pay dearly for mashing out all the time but it only takes that one or two times to put that fear into us and then we’re just trying to bait all the time and then we’ll just lose pressure. Laura without frame traps or pressure isn’t really a character at all - like why play Laura if I have to bait all the time and take huge risks? Why not just play someone who can play more solid like Karin? It’s times like these where I’m like, what do I have to gain from playing Laura when I can play someone else who can do more or less everything she can but better and not have to take those risks?
Mashing DPs is really more of a mental state than it is about the actual effectiveness of DPs. It’s true that the risk vs. reward is in our favor when we take 100 some damage for getting hit by a DP and they get hit for 300+ damage for getting punished but it’s not just a numbers game. If we get hit by it, we can’t apply ‘reckless’ pressure because they can do it again, then there is the aftermath; we’re pushed out and we have to pay with life to get in again. In the end, if we get hit by a DP, we may well lose more than 300 life trying to get in again or having to spend meter that puts us back into the same guessing game. If it was simply losing 100 some life but we put them back into the guessing game, then I think that’s fine but getting hit by a DP not only causes us damage but it diffuses the situation and arguably, in their favor too.
I played against a very scrubby Ryu but was silver and he just mashed DP. It didn’t matter how many times I would punish it (with the good stuff too, mind you) and he still would do it. It was incredibly frustrating because it got to the point where I was punishing 2-3 DPs each round and he would do it even when he was a hit away from dying. Like are these people even playing? Of course, being the way I am, I’m like, “Okay, he got punished like 15 times for mashing DP, he won’t do it again… DPs SMH…”. So I never got my game started, all I could do was wait for the punish which can’t be fun for him either but some people can’t give any fucks. I may as well have been fighting a dummy setting reversal DP on wake up.
Anyways, I digress from the purpose of this thread. Laura can really only get into that mid-far range and EX elbow to blow through fireballs to get in reliably. Either that or get lucky with reads against fireballs and jump at them but good Ryus won’t throw fireballs where jumping in is going to be a huge issue, at least not without them being able to recover or react in time. Getting any closer leaves us prone to getting hit by Ryu’s own footsies although I think Laura does just a tad better than he does at the footsie range. The more annoying Ryus to have to deal with is the ones who knows their spacing well and will use all the possible screen/stage space to get their fireball game going (think of Guile). I’ve played against Ryus who literally would throw fireballs only at close to a full screen away, if he wasn’t at that range, he would backdash until he was and I was stuck chasing him down. I had to chase down those Ryus from one end of the stage to the other 4-5 times during an entire round and it’s incredibly frustrating because they would land a hit or two, get the knockdown and get over to the other side and rinse and repeat. I’m not saying that these are necessarily good Ryus but they are a pain to deal with and even with such an obvious strategy, they still almost win. Of course, throw in a couple DPs here and there and I’m near dead while he’s still backdashing on the other side of the screen and there’s nothing I can do about it.
I agree that random DPs really make this match up harder then it probably is for a lot of other of ryu’s match ups just because of how much Laura relies on getting in, so its not just the 100 life your losing, but the positioning, which is arguably more important. If they always mash DP thats fine, bait constantly and you punish, kind of a boring, predictable match, but an easy one and you still have the challenge of getting in that first time to draw out the DP. But truly random DPs, I feel like you just have to eat them because you can’t sacrifice the rest of her pressure when he’s not doing them out of fear of the occasional dp no matter how good that baited dp damage would have been or how annoying it is getting back in again.
I really wish that outside of the ex one they at least had to guess on strike vs throw invincibility and didn’t have a “beat everything” free dp…
Also for the record I really strongly believe footsies is extremely heavily weighted in Ryu’s favor, his moves are so crazy fast, and the range is outrageous. Consider Ryu’s st.lk which hits from 1.29 away and has hurt box that only extends out to 1.07. For comparison sake, Laura’s st.lk hitbox only goes 1.04 and her st.lp only goes 1.03. Her st.mp goes to 1.039 on the first frame, with a max range of 1.056 by the last frame. Heck, her cr.mp only goes 1.285, still less range then Ryu’s light attack! I don’t know if thats even his furthest reaching light normal, thats just one I picked at random, and of course he’s got a 3 frame normal too, also st.lp, but his is actually more plus on hit at +4, while still being +2 on block, and his cr.lk still hits low but is plus on both hit and block unlike laura’s which is an obnoxious -2 on block. And then there’s that st.mp of his thats only 5 frames instead of 6 like Lauras, is still plus on both hit and block, but is an obnoxious +6 on hit! That’s just a few off the top of my head, I could go on and on comparing their normals…
… but I digress, the point is, Ryu’s normals are pretty good, at footsie range I’d argue quite better then Lauras. Pretty much the only thing I’d say Laura has over Ryu as far as normals is she has a couple that are +3 on block which is pretty rare and normally pretty powerful for frame traps, but as previously mentioned, considerably less so in this match up do to Ryu’s free DP. You basically have a worse dp, a worse fireball, worse normals, worse walk speed, worse forward dash (ryu’s is only 16 frames to Laura’s 17, and yet travels more pixels), pretty much worse or equal everything else, in exchange for having a 6 frame limited range low damage command throw. I feel like ryu didn’t need a free fully invincible dp to make this match up rough for Laura, but his having it combined with how much more damaging being reset to neutral is for her then most of the cast, really pushes this match up into ryu’s favor.
What I said was the LP Bolt getting used too consistently gets thrown out the window. Keep in mind a blocked LP Bolt is barely safe. You will get knocked out of almost anything you do barring an EX bolt. That’s my point. You cannot just throw it around because it doesn’t leave you at an advantage. Ryu not only has the option to mash random normals in your face but he could also just throw out a DP. He can play it very safe.
I think our disagreement comes in the “play smart, don’t get greedy.” Laura is a greedy character IMO. You can’t play “smart” perse because her normals lose to everyone else. Try to out footsie a RYu or Ken, or God forbid a Karin (nightmare matchup). You won’t be able to do it very easily. She is entirely momentum based. You can’t just stop doing a mixup because you need to see what they will do because if they get an offense started you are gonna have issues getting out.
Dan does a good job explaining it above me. Its a 6-4 in Ryu’s favor. Maybe even 7-3 if the Ryu is particularly good. It CAN be a 5-5 if you play very aggressive and don’t eat too many DPs. My games against Ryu are all over the board presently.
No, it’s trained reflexes to mash DPs against grapplers that do jump-ins into light, especially laura’s standing LK 
The DP will beat grab, command grab, any button you push, and jump. The only thing that beats DP is block, so you can see how DP is highly favored after the jump in light.
They don’t even need to do it a lot either, just pop it once at the start of battle and now the mind games start and you fear DP forever.
The best part is how everyone says to use ex elbow to get in but the worst part about fighting a DP character is that you never feel like you’re on the winning side of the 50/50, you’re always the one on the guessing side. If ryu gets up with a DP, he’ll just backdash and start fireballing and if you try to play the fireball game with him, he’ll tatsu and kick you to oblivion and then dash away and fireball again.
I think it’s silly a near-gold laura can’t handle this kind of play from a super bronze but then goes onto beating some gold ryu right after.
Here is a fun one I do a lot. First you condition the DP character to use DP after each time you do a clap. For example, combo into clap and reset into command grab, then do combo into clap and reset into jab(ch)->mp->clap and maybe into command grab again if you’re close. Once you have set this up and they love to DP after you clap… you crush them once and go 5hp(Crush)->5hp->clap->GUARD now get a second crush. The highest I’ve got is 3 crushes in a row and it ended in a stun. He stopped DPing in the later rounds so I go back to command grabs.
I’m a scrubby Laura but here are my thoughts, maximizing Laura’s damage is not that important, you really want to go for the mind-f***.