No. He’s plus too much to do anything to mess with. You can get a jump-in combo if you jump on reaction to tanden and you can also punish it with a sweep or whatever before it actually comes out (even if he does cr.mp xx tanden there’s still a big gap.
Rule 1: Don’t get put into 50/50 situations. Don’t get knocked down, don’t block jump-ins.
You can always jump out of tick throws. I believe every command grab has enough whiff recovery that you can always land nj.hp -> cr.hk at least regardless of spacing. If they’re close you can get nj.hp -> cr.hp xx EX palm.
It was a (lame) joke, but whoever that was must have been a truly pitiable soul. It astounds me sometimes how people can act towards each other. Especially Seths toward my Gouken. Just terrible.
I have found that one of the most effective ways to put the hurt on Seth is to train yourself to jump forward at the first sign of tanden engine. All versions of it have over 20 frames of startup, and from start to complete recovery, the move lasts at least 70 frames. Given that Gouken can do 450+ damage with a single meter off a forward jump-in, being able to see even a single tanden engine starting and jumping in time will net you over 50% of Seth’s health.
Firstly, good job causing this guy to whiff so much. If I may, let me tell you one thing that I saw about your play, especially in the second round…because he basically gave you the first round. I don’t presume to be better or anything so take it as it is. Nearly every advance you made was after a jump back or jump back > fireball. You would then almost every time either jump forward or flip in to attack. If he was a more patient Seth, he would chew that up. I was surprised when you hit him with that follow up palm after the fireball near the end of round 2. It was predictable. Please don’t take this as insulting. I respect your style and aggression, believe me. If I had the means to post vids, I’m sure I would get all sorts of insight that I might not like to hear.
This match was when I first started using Gouken again, so there are a few things that I did and didn’t do that would probably be a little different now.
As far as the palm… Guilty as charged and it was too deep so if he had blocked it he could have landed whatever he wanted.
^^^ yup!!! or jump back mp. Worst case scenario if he hits you with the dive kick in the air you’ll be reset instead of being grounded to be comboed to death. EX Tatsu is good for it too.
That dive kick is always an option for Seth until he reaches the peak of his jump. Gouken has to be agressive vs. Seth to win, if you can’t hit him then it’s pretty much a wrap for Gouken b/c everything he does is unsafe and everything Seth does except his lightning legs is pretty much safe to do, save dp needs fadc.
My general rule of thumb is to stay away from raw EX Palm and EX Hado early on in this MU (especially raw EX Palm, use this mostly for teleport OS). EX Flip is good on wake up if you don’t abuse it too much and if you alter your timing on your dive kick. EX Tatsu is good vs. his jump ins, just keep in mind he can short jump using his dive kick and if you whiff then he get’s to punish Gouken hard… usually to the corner. Seth has shit for health. 1 EX Tatsu is 200 damage, plus if you used it as a zoning option because has the life lead and he has to come and get you. This is where EX Hado is valuable because you can paint the screen. Unless he teleports or FADC’s he get’s hit. (this does not work if he is in range to use EX Lightning Legs)
If you are getting pressured, the best way out imo is to block and tech force him to use command grab. Once he’s hell bent on command grabbing If you can EX Flip or neutral jump (risky b/c he can frame trap your wake up and combo the shit out of you), they both can lead to a hard punish on Seth. Gouken only needs 1 EX Palm combo and for Seth to guess wrong on the next wake up option to be stunned and done.
In another take, you can avoid command grab and take DPs.
I like to squeeze in a decent amount of backdashes when being blockstring’d by seth. It avoids the command grab, and takes only minimal damage from DP. It encourages him to use more DPs, while taking relatively small damage. Using DP too much forces him to burn a LOT of meter, and 1 wrong guesses always puts the game back at your favor. Seth can also OS lighting legs in his blockstrings, so try not to be so predictable with them, but this type of OS is a pain in the ass to do constantly, so if he fucks up its punish time.
The usual seth match goes through a very recognizable set of hurdles.
Zoning, if you can’t handle sb with arms, then hes gonna keep doing them.
If the Seth isn’t patient or you are neutralizing his zoning completely, he will most likely wall jump or jump divekick to get in your face. One EX tatsu or konogo is enough to stop him from trying again for while because of his low health. If not, then hes free, only takes 2-3 EX tatsu/kongo to lose a shit ton of his life.
Last stage is foosties, mixing in the vacuum so that you go to him instead if him losing health to come to you. Jumps and strength version specific spacing can save you here. Mixes slight zoning with EX legs to get around FBs to get in. Seth has an incredible amount of tools at his disposal, but since you already can handle his safer ones, he has to take more risk, and one fuckup is all it takes.
Most Seths online only go through hurdles 1 and 2. They usually get wrecked. They will go to 3 for only a bit because its uncomfortable for them to actually play the goddamn game of foosties since they have more to lose.
I dunno, I usually don’t have problems against seth. I believe it’s a even matchup, Seth wrecks Gouken on wakeup, but Seths health and Goukens damage is the great equalizer here. Sets with Poongko and Bullcat point to it.
Of course damage and health is a big difference. I’m just saying that when Seth is rushing Gouken the ONLY thing you can do is just hope you guessed right… I’ve seen a few Poongko and Bullcat matches and maybe there are a bunch of sets out there but the ones I saw he was at Poongkos mercy until he made a mistake.