Matchup: Gouken vs Yun

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
61

I’ve historically been iffy against Yun just b/c he’s full of shit… lol

Yun’s Dive Kick-
-Focus This might be your best friend to keep him off beat doing that jump dive kick shit. use it to keep him off balance so you can zone or force errors
-cr. mk
-hado with caution
-EX Tatsu (Risky unless you make a good read)
-Kongo with caution (normally EX if you have too, but he can change his dive kicks to hit you high, mid, or low and if you miss/guess wrong he will score a counter Hit to combo you. You’ll mostly be using mp kongo, but there are some situations where you won’t know what to use… especially during your wake up.

-On using st. hk and cr. rh- They both work good and are safe but if he focus’ you for it then you’ll eat a combo

-He can’t FADC his wake up DP Kick- on his wake up if you can block it, you get a full punish and if you are pressuring him stop your strings every now and then to see if he is mashing. Throw a few lp’s out there and stop to see if he’s mashing or teching… chances are he’s doing one of the two. If he’s mashing… punish him, if he’s teching then either frame trap him or kongo him.

-His wake up DP is 4 frames but there is almost no room for error safe jumping him with dive kick, you might want to rely on j. mk if the timing is too strict… You have to start putting it in EARLY and activate your dive kick on the first 1 or 2 frames after cr. roundhouse or you’ll get hit. Forward throw is pretty much the same for everybody so that’s not a big deal.

-Kongo or neutral jump his shoulder… the EX one can land behind you though, so when he has meter beware. You might just want to empty neutral jump if he light’s it up so you can tech and trip guard.

-dj hk- can knock the shit out of him when he’s trying to dive kick… but you want to be jumping at him most of the time, BUT he can tech the knock down and be right be side you. Jumping back will work, but it will put you in the corner if you keep trying it…

-Hado’s are ok to use from a distance or make sure that you are canceling into per cr. mp/lk/st.mp hado during footsies to keep him out. If you must throw one close up… throw it high, unless you think he is trying to non-ex shoulder or lunge through. If he is focusing, then you can try hado canceling at max range and throwing a quick normal out to catch his recovery, but it’s risky for both parties.

-crouch tech with cr. mk, or when you think he wants to dive kick you throw it out there. The one thing you don’t want is them just dive kicking with impunity.

-There’s really not a bunch of good reasons to jump in on him without knocking him down first, unless you are betting on punishing a poke from him… if you must jump neutral jump HP (throw it out there a little early in case he jumps or tries to come in, or jump back.

  • personally think this match up is advantage to Yun, b/c he has all the tools to get in on Gouken, pressure him, and a command grab to boot. I think it would be easier if he didn’t have the command grab b/c you could just wait him out, but you have to always keep that in mind.
62

his command grab has a ton of recovery, so if you counter-read him correctly, you will scor bigger damage than Yun even ever could.

!

also, I think Gouken is among the very few if not the only one who has the luxury of opponents actually empty-jumping on him.

I play other characters besides gouken too, and I’ve found myself trying to jump away from cross-ups, only to get hit every single time.

think about it

edit: yes, FA his dive kicks too. :slight_smile: it works really well for Gouken in general to FA, but you have to watch out if your opponent initiates a “FA pissing contest”, because gouken’s back dash won’t get him out of the way if your opponent reaches level 3 FA first.

63

im going to put up some 10 most recent with a jpn yun named o mohib o , ive been both observing his styles and schemes vs gouken… day or two will post

64

Good input so far

One thing I picked up from playing yun is to try to stay closer to yun but not too close just to a distant were yun’ rush punch isn’t safe and will force yun to play footsie and keep him on the ground. Yun is dangerous when he’s in your face so you are tempted to keep him back but Gouken can out footsie Yun if you play your cards right. Focus on yun weaknesses as his footsie isn’t as good as a shotos footsie yun way for getting close is dive kick or safe rush punch or shoulders. I use far s.mp and s.jabs to stop the dive kicks more consistently, S fp works but better if yun is jumping from a farther distance. focusing on s mp and s lp as a 1 button AAs allows easier reaction time on the lower fast dive kicks vs trying to get that Kongo or tat motion allows me personally to focus on the footsie and keeping yun on the ground. I will use ex tat when I have a chance since the damage is high on yun. My goal is to land a sweep and dash in for pressure to exploit the weakness of yun. Especially when I have an ultra ready… Yun wake up dp kick though is very good it cannot be fadc so it’s a huge risk and demon kick pressure after knocking yun down is also risky. Bait yun wake up move and Gouken can do what he does best…

I say stay closer because when you are far yun players start to shoulder and do rush punches and I have to guess what happens next after a rush punch…

Don’t be afraid to use fireballs for footsies. If you notice yun likes to neutral jump with no dive kicks don’t be afraid to throw a sniper fire ball. It’s all about getting into the yun players mind and show your not afraid to stand your ground. Yun has low health and the yun player knows it so they don’t like being on the defense.

I view this match up as who ever gets the knock down gets the advantage.

65

Even though Yun has a 4 frame reversal, it seems his wake up is a couple frames faster or something than equivalent characters… Guile, Yun, and Guy all have 4 frame reversals… but it seems that Guile’s is waaaaay easier to safe jump for some reason with GF Dive Kick after landing a cr. hk.

I think learning to vortex people with d+mk is a very good option against characters who are a little harder to vortex from the GF. (Well Guy is only hard when he has EX)… . You lose some options but you get a few extra frames to land safely.

I haven’t taken Yun into the lab in a LONG time, so there could possibly be something else… but all the other options I’ve found seem to just reset him out of his dive kick instead of leaving him in a grounded state to combo him.

66

His problema (for us of course) is because he has a lot of invincibility on that move, I think is 7 fr, they start in 5 the fastest and 4 ex but they have 7fr of invincibility especially HK…

67

Yang seems less difficult than this one…

getting good at reading yuns spacing helps too.

68

Very low and deep d. Mk dive kicks are best on his wake ups vs that move and keep in mind it has that invincibility but yun can’t fadc. Best thing to do is just block it and punish. Once yun player is scared to use that move on wake up rush down and steal his skate board.

I was doing some more testing on another yun yesterday by staying in my footsie range they like the N. Jump when I’m being aggressive and pressuring.

Yun use to be my bad match up so I learned this match up so I could get more wins.

69

So, I played against this character yesterday and got so frustrated that I don’t know what to do, I know that match up is kind of hard, but the way he played me look like 10-0 and destroyed in every single round. Jeeeeezzz I’ll post tonight what happened during the.match. I need serious help here…

70

Don’t go towards him, ket him chase you down. BUT STAY OUT OF THE CORNERS.

will go more in depth later

71

As far as I know, Yun got some damage buffs and the kid is just + frame advantage on so many of his tools. I mean, he can divekick you, jump up and divekick you again and you don’t have time to do anything…

His ex lunge punch is +1 for him ON BLOCK. You can not do ANYTHING safely after blocking it. Nice right?

He got his cross up jumping mk back, because apparently he wasn’t ambiguous enough for the crybabies playing him. Nice right?

Oh, he got a nerf too. His command grab (fucking ridiculous that he has a command grab!) does 1 point of damage so combos after it do a tiny bit less damage. Where did they get that idea from? Nice right?

You need to be faster than him to win. That’s all I can say. Don’t drop strings, don’t do anything unsafe, hit confirm everything and don’t even bother trying to counter hit because most of the time he will hit you with his 3 frame, +6 on hit jab that leads to all his mix ups. Is there really a good strategy? You can’t play defense for too long because of command grab, you can’t really stay on offense for too long because of his stupid good up kicks, you can’t zone him because you JUST FUCKING CAN’T. Screw it, just go apeshit with flip grabs and flip parries.

72

Think of this fight this way, it’s not yun it’s the player, this is about who gets the upperhand. Yun can’t fadc his dp kick move, pressure the yun player into using it and punish with S.mp, c.fp, ex palm, tat for huge damage on yun… Don’t be afraid to throw air fireballs when in footsie range, this conditions the yun to stop jumping. Goukens sweep is a good poke vs a grounded yun. Demon flip at yun to test what he does when you jump at him. Parry yuns dp for a huge punish. It’s a hard fight but you have to fight back instead of letting yun rush you down.

73

Sounds like a good time for hard knock > hk gflip dive

use lpalm after backdashes as he begins pursuit from across screen w ex lunge punch

play the rope a dope if he gets you in the corner and you have meter

74

So here I go. Played this guy and was trying to keep my space with pokes and when I throw my first fireball he did shoulder and went through it. Then he does dive kick and with the stun he waited and does cr lk, since I’m in cr position I’m doing crouch tech, but because of the stun of the dive kick, he did a late lk and blew me up.

After that he does dive kick again and (I’m like Ok, I’ll do stand tech) he goes for regular lk but right after the dive kick and goes again with the pain train. Again dive kick (Ok I’ll do lp Kongo) and the ashore goes for cr lp and pain train and I’m stunt. After he finish the combo goes for dive kick again and (I’m like Ok, mp Kongo) and he commam grab and finished the round.

He was done and I don’t even have one bar. So I’m thinking Ok, I’ll ex tatsu his dive kick whenever he jump, and I actually did, but I have no bar left and if I tried to throw hado, he’ll either jump divekick or shoulder press. Arrrggghhh

I just remembered. A post I made a while ago about AA him with pokes, that doesn’t work, you’d probably hit him 3 out of 10 times. For be able to hit him with either st or cr hp it has to be anticipated, and if he jumps later he’ll hit you in the recovery frames. Regular lk tatsu is slow cr. Mk only works when he’s on top of you. So you’ll only have stand jab and ex tatsu, or do an air to air, which I didn’t, I was so lost and confused that I stopped thinking.

So any ideas or strategy to deal with him?

75

I struggle with Yun as well, but I have some success focusing his dive kicks and shoulder.

76

Charge the hados, incorporate fake fb; only use fbs on their wake and when there is more than 1/3 screen between you, once your back is towards the corner NJ HK IAT out of trouble.
Also if you notice about 1/3 screen distance after a couple backdashes and he is pursuing you with his own dashes try to condition them to ex shoulder to chase you down.

Chances are they already do, make em eat a safe aka non punishably spaced palm or ex palm

that’s your homework for the day

I’m not saying I play every yum match like that btw, but those are my go to’s.

77

The shoulder being used means your being predictable with fireballs. EX shoulder can be done on reaction. If you see Yun waiting for a shoulder walk up to him and start poking at him with sweeps. Gouken’s sweep (c.lk and c.rh) is good because it stops shoulder attempts and lunge punches. Yun’s usually use the ex lunge punch to get in when you are too far away so the best thing to do is be closer to him. when closer Yun’s best way to get in is dive kick. His ground pokes are designed for up close fighting. The best move vs the neutral dive kicks is far standing MP. it either hits clean or trades. far fp is only good if you really see a dive kick coming but MP is better for quicker reaction. ex tat is for jump forward attacks since yun can change up the attack.

When doing kongo’s just do the ex version to get rid of the guessing the attack or just block.

Another tool is use shin sho. back throw version does insane damage vs yun and its good as an anti air. if in range and you see yun neutral jump do the ultra early and you will get the multi hit version if he doesn’t attack or full anime if he dive kicks.

Last when yun’s are under pressure MOST of the time I notice they neutral jump to try to escape and if they do they will dive kick to try to get the upper hand especially if they are cornered. use that to your advantage!

78

Made a video showing some tips to use in this match-up:

79

Thank you, but what about yuns that don’t dive or st.hk from half screen.