Matchup: Gouken vs Yun

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
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Post all your questions, answers, and knowledge for this matchup here!

This is what I’ve got…

Any dive kick - crouch tech the first two followup hits with c.mk as it will stuff any rejump dive kick attempts before they get started.

Lunge punch - punish with forward throw.

EX Lunge punch - crouch tech with mk. It will stop a throw, block if he does cr.lk and will stuff a divekick before he gets high enough to do one if he tries it.

Shoulder slam: Focusable/Kongoable with MP. Can try to bait it.

Use c.lk to stop the target combo counter hit bait. This is basically when they have you in block stun off light attacks and they seem pushed far enough out of range that it is safe to throw something out but then that retarded st.strong > HP target combo comes out stuffing you and giving them a combo.

At full screen if you can keep him there just fireball away, if he starts absorbing them do a HP palm to hit his recovery. If he starts neutral jumping with a dive kick you can use MP to smack him out of that

Any telegraphed dive kick or a jump that looks like it can turn into a dive kick can be stuffed with st.hp at minimal risk to yourself for 120 damage.

A lot of Yun’s I have played like to do the two handed palm on your wakeup which pushes them out to a safe distance for any of your grounded normals. They will usually immediately jump right afterwards and come back down with a dive kick.

This is what I came up with in the training room last night but haven’t put it into match use so use at your own risk. You can do a few things as soon as you see them jump. LP/MP Kongo will beat a MK dive kick and if LK divekick works I assume it will bebeaten by LP kongo, so if you want to kongo, use LP. Next you can just diagonal jump with HK, because of its arching hitbox it will hit them easy. You can also do dj,mp into tatsu but this can whiff, I’d hesitate to use it. Another option is EX tatsu. You can almost do this psychic/reversal as the hitbox extends out pretty far and will hit them regardless of whether they divekick or neutral jump. The other three tatsus all do different things because of their weird start up and nonsucking.

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Was playing against Yun quite a bit last night offline, dj.HK air to air owns the shit out of dive kick. The only downside is it only owns divekick when you jump AT him. If you keep jumping away trying to snipe it with HK it will keep whiffing and send you further and further to the corner while he keeps chasing with dive kicks, eventually you will get tagged. Going at him though will stuff him easy. It feel counterintuitive and unsafe, and it probably is, much like all of Gouken’s crap, but it works.

5

simple answer: :frowning:

6

I tried that and it worked pretty well, stopped them a bit from doing it.

It also works against all dive kick spammers(cammy, rufus, etc) and fei long’s chicken wing’s up close.

7

I’ve started using j. hk a lot and I’ll probably heed your advice in using it against yuns divekicks. I think this may be the new toughest matchup. Yun can just relentlessly pressure you and their isn’t shit you can do unless you can be lucky enough to get a knockdown. Unfortunately this won’t be a simple block and tech session like with cammy as Yun has a fucking command grab which leads to nice damage. So what do you do? Start backdashing on wakeup? Nah you’ll get option select lunge punched like a mother fucker. I can see this match being 7-3 easy.

8

This is my biggest problem when coming across Yun players online, I am finding it very difficult to get out of a corner once backed into one. That said my game would be much better if my timings for Gouken’s counter were a bit better.

9

Half the problem is that it is online. Even offline though won’t make it much better.

It’s not that I can’t beat Yun, it’s that I’m sitting there blocking half the match wondering why the fuck it is so easy for this guy. I KNOW what Yun is going to do, I just don’t have anything to stop it with.

Sooner or later he will dive kick and start his little block string. As soon as he is done with his block string, he will rejump and dive kick. 90% of the time this is true.
I can confirm with my eyes that he jumps before following up with the next few options…

From here these are my options:
Regular tatsu: too slow and I get hit out of it
c.mk: if you actually wait to see him jump, this FOUR FRAME MOVE gets stuffed and is too slow. And when I say jump I’m talking about you just see him rise off the ground, not even confirm whether he is diving or not. You don’t have time to confirm that.
EX tatsu for 200 damage and a bar
EX kongo for 150 and a bar
MP kongo and hope he actually dive kicks right away or eat a combo again.

The one thing I haven’t tried is a st.lp for minimal damage and a reset right in front of my god damn face.

Yun can keep playing this game over and over and over all the while building meter for his super.

After a blocked dive kick I have to think about a re-dive, a command throw, a tick throw, his block string that goes back up to the top of this post, or his little gdlk st.strong counterhit on a cr.tech.

This is all he does, this is all that is needed for this character.

If you try to create distance and jump back he can just dive kick after you and you have no attack that can hit him as you jump backwards. I suppose you could BURN YET ANOTHER BAR and EX tatsu in the air and go forward. Just don’t knwo where all these bars are coming from…

Even when you make Yun mess up and he does wake up dragon kicks you can’t even do a full punish. he has no lag time on whiffed dive kicks so neutral jumping is not a threat, just an invite to get hit.

I’m not sure what the hell they were thinking in this matchup, I’m not sure what the hell they are even thinking with Gouken anymore. When I beat a Yun it’s more his fault then mine. I’m taking ridiculous risks to counter stuff I KNOW is coming. If a Yun has half a brain he can rape the shit out of all my strategies to defend against his ad naseum use of dive kick bnlock string dive kick puke.

10

The problem here though is I am trying to react, not randomly guess.

It basically goes like this: I’m knocked down and Yun does a palm on me or he has just dive kicked me and I blocked and he block strings back out to his dive kick range.

At this point in the game, almost all Yuns will go for a dive kick attempt. I know this, they know, and I’m waiting for it. I’m waiting for the most miniscule movement upwards to react. It’s the only thing I’m looking for. I’m already crouching. I see him move up and c.mk gets stuffed. 4 frames. I have to imagine the same thing is going to happen to st.mk. Jump back HK and MK will whiff at this range, at least they all have for me and then Yun just come dive kicking after me as I flail my fucking leg around like a one legged bicycle rider. Jump forward HK will stuff them but I’ve never tried it as a reaction, only psychic. The problem is if he doesn’t jump, now I just did a retard psychic jump attack at the moon and I’m free punish.

As far as focus punishes, I can’t get them to land AT ALL. I was even doing level 1’s just to try to hit them and get away, like tapping the FA, and still he was blocking them.

As for immediate rejumps, that’s taken care of with cr.mk tech. He can’t get out of the hitbox fast enough to get to a height to dive kick.

My main issue with this matchup at this point stems from what seems like eternal fucking pressure unless you go apeshit on being random. It’s like you can’t play a read and react defense no matter how telegraphed his shit is, if you want even frame of confirmation that he is doing exactly what you thought he was going to do, it’s too late.

It’s like football, you have to constantly play a goal line defense when you’re not even on the fucking goal line. Imagine someone got 4 yards rushing every fucking attempt no matter what unless you sold out to stop the run with all your defenders. I feel like the only defense we have is to leave ourselves completely vulnerable in every area except for one.

11

Best solution in this matchup is to pick another character. I am this close to dropping this game.

12

yea, I switch over to dudley. I can understand why Desora opts to play makoto against the twins.

13

wow… it’s a hopeless matchup o_O

l don’t have much to contribute but I tried to air escape tatsu a Yun and his nj kick (roundhouse?) beat it, lol

14

try cl st hk against dive kicks? Haven’t tried it out yet

15

I have absolutely no trouble against the twins with hawk. In fact I make most people switch. It just annoys me that it’s so loopsided.

Fucking Capcom man, If they had a face I’d punch it.

16

I’d love to try it out if a twin would ever initiate a dive kick in the range to set it off. Thanks to cr.mk tech you don’t ever need to worry about a Yun rejumping you.

I’m thinking the reason you don’t have a problem with T.Hawk is cause people are mistiming the dive kick cause of T.Hawks size or cause your SPD grabs them from any tick attempts or sloppy follow up block strings.

With Gouken I suppose you could do LP Kongo after a dive kick to interrupt any cr.lks after the dive kick if he was sloppy by a frame, but yeah, you’d lose horribly to throws.

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Is this an lk gouken flip? Is there any specific timing to it?

I used to try the forward throw-dash twice- Hk gouken flip since it is supposedly safe against other dps but yun’s one beats it everytime.

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Yes, that is a lk GF and the timing has to be spot on. You have to buffer the GF during the recovery from cr. roundhouse, and then piano lk so you activate the GF as soon as possible. Once the GF activates I plink with 2 kicks or you can piano, to make the GF Dive Kick activate as soon as possible so you are always hitting in the feet. If you hit anywhere else against someone with a 4 frame move you’ll surely lose out.

If the dive kick is too tough right now, just substitute it with a jump in mk the end result is the same.

It takes a lot of practice to get it down 100% without thinking about it, and that’s not including the OS… but it’s something that every Gouken will have to learn at some point since it’s his only way to apply safe pressure.

19

Does Yun have a quicker standup time like Adon did in Super? It seems there gap in safe jump techs on Yun even though he SHOULD only have a 4 frame-5 frame reversal. Yet standard setups dont work. Am I the only one thinking this? Or is it that the hitboxes on the dp kick retarded?

20

forward throw, dash, lk demon flip works everytime for me.