I don’t really post on here, but I felt like I should share my thoughts on Chun’s matchups with this chart. Please note I am not stating facts or trying to justify my thoughts. This is intended to produce discussion and allow other players see how I view Chun as a character. I gave up trying to keep things to myself and decided to help and guide other players that play or want to play Chun-li. So, here is how I personally view the matchups go VS. Chun. http://www.mmcafe.com/tiermaker/ssf4/index_customize.html?tc=ya0-tr7ibq9cbndcbpf8h05pbyf8k9j1bjd17ven2ibafkmfbah3gyiw62gl44fiblo0bedch7hf9yep41dcfeew5uhifadbitiw81gt61gx84fcisin49bbbljmf2phb6didofif4hbbqf67yd59xkob8cx61d04c-bkg-tiChun+M%2FU+Tier+list-ct999999-c1000000-c2000000-tvFF7101-thDD3C3C-d16+4+or+better-x110-d24+6+or+worse-x210-d3Chun+-x310-d45+5-x47
Seeing as I’m interested in Chun as of late, this is delicious. Now share your tech with me.
I’ll post stuff sometime this week. But if you have questions, PM me.
It’s similar to how I would arrange it, there are some differences though:
The thing about Hakan is that Chun is vulnerable to focus attacks. I consider it 5-5 because while chun causes a lot of problems when she knocks down Hakan, The same can be said in reverse. She does have EX SBK, but that’s it, and can be safe jumped pretty easily. The goal is to keep a distance to where she is away from his focus shenanigans, but still be able to punish oil ups. That’s pretty hard when he has focus armor and her lack of armor breaking moves. When I play VS. Hakan, I don’t see any real danger until he knocks me down, so the advantage to disadvantage for both characters is the same imo. Chun delivers more punishment of knockdown, but Hakan provides a better neutral game.
Chun does have problems with focus, but weirdly enough I haven’t found that she has problems against Hakan’s focus game. The reason for that is Hakan uses his focus diffrently from how others do, he wants to use absorb dash cancel or lv1 release dash cancels, -and- he is fat.
This opens up the use of st.mp x hk legs as an answer more often, st.mp x hazanshu also works pretty well against Hakan, overuse of it still leads to you getting punished though.
Her normals work great against his jump st.hp pretty much always works against him, so you rarely have to use st.mk, which means you can often anti air him and keep charge, and you deal more damage than usual while doing it.
A large part of his gameplan is keeping oiled, and with u1 you can punish him hard always if he’s doing it raw, as long as you have meter for it. st.hk also works great for punishing it. Chun also has consistent punishes against his long range normals on block in st.hp and ex legs. Her meterless punish against failed slides is strong too, cl.hk x legs, c.hp x legs, c.hk.
I changed the sorting of mine to show the tier of the characters in the list. What you can see is that in general Chun has good matchups against Mid/Low tiers but bad matchups against high/top tiers.
U1 might be a good idea since I use U2 in this matchup, but keep in mind, his U2 also shuts off her major damage. With Oil, meter, and U2, Chun can’t do anything until oil wears off. It’s an even trade off for how useless he is without oil. I agree with most of your bad matchups, though I don’t really think Cammy is too bad. Chun, suprisingly, can keep her away for the most part, has an unblockable on her off forward throws, and way better footsies.
I agree that Cammy isn’t that bad, but it’s definitely in favor of Cammy. A big reason for this is because Chun isn’t allowed to be active in her poking, she should only be playing reactively. If Chun presses a button and Cammy happened to jump at that moment, you just let her in for free. If you press st.mp/st.hp pre-emtively and Cammy did c.mk x spiral at the same time it’s very likely to beat you out clean and knock you down.
You also have to play the matchup while holding a very uncomfortable spacing for Chun, you want to always be just outside of Cammy c.mk range, that way you can anti-air her at all times with st.mk, even if she does ex dive you get a trade at worst, which is pretty nice concidering it’s Cammy ex dive.
Chun just has to play pretty much flawless to make this matchup close to even, while Cammy can be very sloppy and still clutch it out from a random jump/knockdown.
At specific ranges, Chun can poke with st.mp and st.rh without worrying about a jump-in. Only when Cammy is close is where you can get caught. The easy way to do this is by focus backdashing once she jumps your poke. Sweep is the one oke that can’t be used here. It’s too slow. I honestly believe it 4.5-5.5, but that’s up to the user.
I’ve never been a fan of the MM Cafe style so I’m just going to break down my feelings in text…
Extremely Bad
Akuma
Solid Disadvantage
Cammy
Viper
Rufus
Blanka
Adon
Yun
Slight Disadvantage
Seth
Fei
(Cody)
(Makoto)
(Ken)
Even
Ryu
Evil Ryu
Oni
Juri
Bison
Sakura
Yang
Balrog
Sagat
(Cody)
(Makoto)
(Ken)
(Hakan)
Slight Advantage
Guile
Ibuki
Gouken
Gen
Fuerte
Guy
Dee Jay
Rose
Vega
(Hakan)
(Honda)
(Dudley)
Solid Advantage
Dan
Dhalsim
Abel
Zangief
T.Hawk
(Honda)
(Dudley)
The basis behind my thinking - Chun isn’t a zoner in this game. Zoning isn’t that good in this game and trying to play her as such won’t work out well. Guile is much better at it and he’s mid-tier at best. Chun has a pretty good offense but it’s not airtight so she has to be precise with it. And she can be overwhelmed defensively in a hurry. So I think she has to play hit and run - get in and do damage. But be careful and stay on her feet.
She struggles against people with good pressure offense because once they get in it’s hard for her to get them out. When/if she does get out she only gets out, there’s usually no bonus damage or benefit to her other than not dying. I think it’s difficult for her to go better than even against people who have solid reversals because it takes a lot of the bite out of her offense. Especially meterless DP and anyone who can DP FADC.
Against those who don’t have decent reversals she can go even or better, but a lot of that will depend on the other character and what their options/capabilities are. I also think Chun does poorly against tricks so characters with sneaky stuff up their sleeves can steal wins from her.
Tricks never steal once you learn from them. Can’t say that I disagree with anything you posted. I do need some help in the dhalsim matchup. I know we beat him, but man do I get trashed by him.
I really don’t think sim is that easy
but then again I don’t think any mu is easy these days
Cody and Blanka are in/near the 5-5 territory for me
With Sim Chun just has to be patient and work her way in. If you time it right you can counter his limbs with Kikoken. When he throws fireballs use her quick walk speed to close some of the distance before you have to block. Eventually you get into a range where she can Hasanshu over them - even if Dhalsim can recover and block it lets Chun get in. And of course once U1 is stocked Dhalsim’s fireball game gets gimped. What makes it so good for her is that once she does get in, he has no way to get her off until he has Super. All of her mixups are in play and the best he can hope for is a good guess that gets him out of the situation.
There are a lot of things about the Cody match I don’t like. He has a great jump in in j.rh. Excellent frame traps and good ways to catch backdash. A good nj attack. A quick low that leads into a knockdown combo. A crossup, which combined with his frame trap and backdash-catching properties means he has lots of ways to take away EX SBK and force Chun to try and guess her way out of the situation. She also can’t really Kikoken him that well. Cody’s defense is poor so she can take the fight to him, which is why it’s more of an even match, but I feel like sometimes his damage potential and great frame traps give him a slight edge.
If Chun has a life lead and meter and she’s willing to just sit down she gets the advantage in the Blanka match. The problem is that without meter she’s kind of susceptible to his tricks, and if Blanka decides to sit down she has to work hard to try and create openings. So round 1 starts off advantage Blanka and Chun has to make some good reads to avoid taking damage/take damage from him to turn the tables.
I think it’s interesting you guys have listed guile as even to slight advantage. Dieminions recent list had chun listed as easy to beat. I remember also a guile player (can’t remember who now) giving his thoughts about guile’s numbers in the tier list thread a while ago saying he feels guile shits on chun.
I personally struggle a ton with guile but I’m a pretty crap player so I understand my personal experience doesn’t mean the matchup is actually bad. However I don’t think I’ve ever heard a guile player say chun is any sort of threat and I’ve never understood what it is about chun that guile has to be scared of.
I feel the only chance chun has of winning this is walking him to the corner and keeping him there for 2 whole rounds until he’s dead which is easier said than done on a good guile. Mid screen guile can shit on most things chun does on reaction.
Basically im asking if you guys could elaborate on what makes it even or advantage chun so I can work out what I’m doing wrong lol
Midscreen Guile does shit on Chun. Thanks to her float jump she pretty much can’t jump over a SB without taking some sort of damage. If she gets impatient in trying to get to him she’s going to lose a lot of random damage. Also the recovery on SB is good so she can’t really counter his SB game with HSU as he has enough time to recover. It does however help to close the distance if done right.
Chun does win the mid-range game against him, as she has better normals and mobility. She also wins the up-close game with again better normals and combo options. Guile pretty much never wants to play this game against her, and a good Guile will avoid it. Chun’s best strategy is to just be patient and push him into the corner. Either Guile backs himself there, or he starts trying to play mid-range to avoid it, and both of these scenarios work in Chun’s favor.
One of Chun’s best advantages in this match is that she can protect sweep distance and still be offensively threatening. You can Hasan Shu over SB and while it may not hit, it gets Chun in. She can also U1 reaction to SB and this is a distance where it will connect. The most important thing though is that if Guile tries to Flash Kick and Chun does nothing it’ll whiff, meaning he can’t even FADC it for safety. Chun can punish with b+mk into launcher or U1. If Chun wants to she can get in close and just go aggro on Guile – she risks eating a FK but it’s a decent risk.
With Guile in the corner and Chun protecting sweep distance his options reduce quite a bit. You can react to almost everything he tries to do. Guile’s jump-ins are all easily AA’ed by Chun, and sweep AA is actually pretty effective in this match. This is where Chun has her most solid advantage in the match.
Other random things - Chun’s j.rh is pretty beefy and will trade or flat-out beat regular FK. Guile has to use EX FK to beat it. Guile also hates cross-ups, and while Chun can cross him up she shouldn’t do it if it means giving up screen position.
If Chun is impatient, or the Guile is super-patient and able to just wear her down he wins for sure. Midscreen is definitely 6-4 Guile. Why I list this as 6-4 Chun is because in order to keep that midscreen advantage he has to either keep moving backwards, putting himself in the corner where it’ll be a solid 6-4 Chun, or start fighting mid-range where things become 6-4 Chun. I will say though that if you let Guile get out of the corner twice you will probably lose the match.
tl;dr version: it’s even, just don’t get salty and impatient and kill yourself doing stupid shit just to get in
Also df+hk can mess with him a fair bit.
I definitely agree there’s no need to get impatient with Guile. Even HSU over his fireballs can be problematic because he can counter with his upside down kick (lower body invincibility) or just focus on reaction. Chun doesn’t have to chase Guile down.
Chun has the advantage in meter building. Chun builds 2x the amount of meter guile does by throwing fireballs, since his meter gain was nerfed for super. Just stand back for a little while, building super by throwing fireballs and whiffing HK legs. LK HSU over booms if you run out of charge, since he charges faster than Chun… you should have enough charge after recovery to throw another fireball. Or even build up revenge meter by focus absorb. There’s no reason to go in without stock unless he brings the fight to you first. This is probably the only match I use Cr. HP to move forward as a staple of my game-plan.
never had a problem with guile since picking up chun, I just have to tell myself to stop jumping sometimes