understanding the characteristics of the st lks and the range within which it can be used as a true blockstring is very crucial to make it a part of your game.normally,the first two lks just outside of the close lk range cannot be interrupted inbetween,but beyond that going for another stlk on block can be interrupted even even if the timing is right.
I just meant more of well, if you can condition your opponent to block as well as you did, perhaps you should go for a throw. I use stand lk like that myself, I just pepper it with more throws/ch, as I find frame mixups quite weak in sf4 personally. If there was a gentlemans agreement not to use tick throws much, well that explains everything. I had suspected as much.
again its not a mixup,its to keep your opponents from pressing buttons inbetween your lks.if he keeps doing that,you aint going nowhere with this tool.normally i tend to use the pos frame traps around half a dozen or less times(depending on how smart my opponent is) before proceeding
with the other shenanigans like walkup karathrows/cosmic heel/jump forward etc.its very very important to condition your opponent with pos.
HELL the st lk shenanigans wont even exist if the pos frame trap doesnt work.
and yes,
in anything less then four bars,you’re considered a dumbass for using tick throws.
anyways as ive said before,the only reason why i put up that video is to show a couple of setups that my friend got on camera.
Isn’t the point of the stand lk to stop your opponents from pushing buttons? At it’s frames it should at least trade with anything they put out, or beat anything vega puts out. Personally I am always afraid to use pom because it’s punishable on block, but if you swear by it I will give it a shot for sure. Right now if I feel confident they will try ad poke out of an lk string I do either crouch lp ect or stand hk to stuff it. Maybe pom works better?
ah… i finally figured out how to beat this one blanka that consistently lames me out mashing option select tech
noirmally i juts back up and sweep him but that’s so damn obvious
this will help a lot, can’t wait til it’s an overhead ^____^ i revoke my previous overhead hate statement
I beat Late option select with ch, and early with frame traps personally.
^ see goddamnit
of course, that’s so obvious, but i have such a stupid mental block fighting this particular blanka
i’m so sick of fighting him, he always hits me with the weirdest shit
i could go on a rant about how ANNOYING it is to lose when I practice all my shit and get beat by mashed lightning, but i won’t. it’s SF4 after all. Fix the fucking reversal window in this game, OR how about fix blanka’s wakeup animation. Goddamnit.
Mental blocks are much harder to get over than simple strategy, but much more useful in the long run, good luck!
@laxlight- I have a few questions for you or anyone else who can answer. Although I really want to know what Laxlight has to say about it.
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Why use POM instead of CH? CH will dodge the move and get you more dmg.
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Why would you not want the opponent to try and hit you, when you can just counter them? Also what is the frame advantage of hitting someone with POM when they block crouching and standing?
POM is completely useless. I don’t know why you guys are still talking about it.
The question is really if POM has anything over df.hk other than range. From what I’ve experienced, df.hk beats out most normals with a low hitbox (although it does whiff on too low hitboxes like shoto cr.mk) as well; it’s much safer, faster on startup, has more active frames, combo’s into a lot more damage creates a knockdown and so on.
I must say that I’m still curious to test this out myself.
ok let me say this as clear as possible,im not talking about range.with 2 st lks you’d still be pretty close to the opponent.
1.if you do a pom,the block stun of the st lk would make sure that the mashed normal (crmp etc) of the opponent would come out just as the pom reaches the top of its arc.meaning,the pom would go over the normals and land as a counter attack.
if you where to do the cosmic heel after 2 st lks,from that range,almost all of the mashed out cr normals of your opponents would stuff the move on its starting frames.the cosmic heel can
only hit beat your opponent out when he’s out of range(where his normal whiffs),but with 2 stlks(a true blockstring ends with 2 st lks) you would still be pretty close to your opponent and
thus a ch done after that would get stuffed everytime.
for example,in that video if i had done a cosmic heel after the 2 st lks,catk’s crmp wouldve stuffed it cleanly on startup.
damage wise a pom is nothing great,but its crucial that you condition your opponents not to press any buttons before starting to use cosmic heels.
btw if you do the pom frame trap right,it lands as a counter attack EVERY time.if it doesnt land as a counter attack,either you got lucky or plain doing it wrong.its called as a frame trap for a reason!
The reason why this doesn’t make sense to me is because POM startup is 19 frames I believe, which is plenty of enough frames for an opponent to attack. St lk. has leaves you at +2 which means that if you do POM afterwards then the opponent has 17 frames for which they could do something. How can you get a counterhit if you need to hit before their active frames to get a counterhit (as far as I know) and they are mashing? If they mash then the active frames should be clearly finished, by the time the POM comes down.
Also when you did it to Cat K he did cr lp at 27 seconds at the beginning of the match, and you never landed any more POM on him after that ever in the video. Also when you did hit him with the POM it was not a counter hit. You started using CH at the end of your block strings, and you hit CH throughout your match more than your POM.
Please note that I am only trying to understand your point of view.
first of all,if reading frames is really as straighforward as you’ve made it out to be then this game wont even be half as complicated as it is right now.(what i mean is that you never took the properties of the frames into consideration.)
so anyways,frame data wise:
consider the number of frames of blockstun after the second st lk to be x.now this x is also the number of frames for which the pom is vulnerable on startup.thus if the total number of startup frames of pom is A,then A-X would be the number of startup frames of the pom which is invulnerable to the cr normals.so basically the x
number of blockstun frames of the st lk will ensure of the fact that the mashed out normal of your opponent exactly comes out during the “arc”(A-X) frames(frames where the pom is invulnerable to the cr normals) of the pom.
basically both pom and cosmic heel have these “arc” frames where all of the cr normals whiff.but the only difference is that the cosmic heel has them during its active frames(reason why it flatout beats the cr normals of the characters,making it an offensive move) and the pom has it during its startup frames,which should make pom a great defensive move right? no…the real reason why the japanese previously considered pom to be crap up until now is because as i said, the “arc” frames of the pom begin only after a couple of vulnerable startup frames,making it very difficult to utilize the arc frames when the move is used stand alone.
also,i never said that pom is a better alternative to cosmic heel.and this move certainly isnt for doing damage or initiating a combo.matter of fact,the very aim of using the pom frame trap is to condition your opponent not to press buttons so that you can start to use the cosmic heel shenanigans.
to further understand what im trying to say,against an opponent in a live match,start doing the lk string cosmic heel shenanigans,even the most defensive players would start mashing through your strings not liking the idea of a VEGA player doing a block string on them,thus your cosmic heel follow up is going to get stuffed every time.
Looks like I’m really going to test this thoroughly today. This is pretty interesting.
Pom does get airborne faster than ch. I would have to try this out to test what you are saying, I still don’t like the idea of using a punishable move in my offense, even dp’s.
im sorry,but how exactly is the move punishable?if you time it properly after the lks,nothing other than an srk type reversal move beats it.
either you didnt read or i dont get what you’re saying.
bottom line:
if you want to use st lk shenanigans on your opponent,you got to condition them with the st lk piece of mercury frame trap first.
Punishable generally means after the move is blocked you can be hit. But I was guessing you are hitting later in the active frames to make the move safer, which is why I would need to test it with spacing and possible punishment. But you can still do the same thing with any 4f frames moves, pom may be more efficient, needs testing.
as long as the lks and the pom connect,the spacing isnt an issue.its all about the timing.you need a human partner to get a feel of the timing.
btw lastly,this technique was found out by a claw player named yamasan
I only have one use for POM and that’s to beat ryu’s c.mk. If you have a ryu that likes to good footsies on the ground, c.mk is a real bitch because most of your attacks go over it or trade with it and the damn thing recovers so well. If you see a ryu patterning with c.mk xx fireball, walk just before c.mk range and POM. I think this is a much better option since it recovers faster than sliding to counter the c.mk.
For mashers I do like jozhear said, back up a step then cosmic.