that
that’s why i’m obsessed with damage . punish has to be optimal …u can’t rely only on divekicks against a average player he will make u cry just by using st lp (that’s my case anyway 
)
Yeah, we should be doing as much damage as possible at all times. It’s not ok that Yang’s damage sucks if, in fact, Yang can do damage and we’re just ignoring it because it’s too difficult. Especially the cl.hp palm fadc lp cl.mk one. 480 stun and a reset for 2 bars is a pretty good deal, especially considering it does like 40 damage more than his other, similar, 1f link fadc reset combo.
Also, AFAIK, we haven’t figured out which frames of the forward dash are cancellable. It’s possible that it has 2 cancellable frames instead of just 1, which would make the command throw resets better.
I’m not calling a 1 frame non plinkable link difficult, i’m calling it impossible. But by all means prove me wrong.
Which makes you wonder even more why the hell they nerfed his damage out of all things.
…but it is plinkable…and pros have been doing 1f links without plinks for a very long time. Plinking is new.
Yang didn’t do damage in AE…right…we have some main character syndrome going on here. You two have been playing some character that hits really hard or something. Yang was hitting for way too much with his options in AE. Now he does have a damage problem…but to be honest, he probably should, because he still hits for a ridiculous amount on his command grab considering what other tools he has available to him. His resets are still very dirty. He still turns quick, long range pokes into 170 damage into potential resets with meter, easy. He still hits fairly hard in the corner too. Counter hits like nobody’s business.
Yang was OP. Now he is basically just sliiightly underpowered - and imo, only because his cross up is garbage.
I don’t think pros or anyone has been doing 1 frame links without plinking ever. I could be wrong, but isn’t sf4 the first game with 1 frame links?
And regarding yang’s damage, i think it’s mostly due to people making straight comparisons to yun, who also has a command grab, hits way harder and deals more stun. At least i’m one who still can’t grasp why they nerfed yang’s s.mp hitbox and left all of yun’s hitbox alone. Some japanese secret tech? Also except for the 1 sec shaved off genei jin (which is minor, since the followups still work) yun had no damage adjustments. Let’s not forget yun also builds meter faster than yang. I’m not sure if this was the case in the old ae version.
He probably did too much stun (which was cool, since this was probably his main strength in 3s), but i never viewed his damage as high. Still, that doesn’t bother all that much, damage is not all that important component…he hits for pretty much the same as bison now. bnb from a low is what, 148?
Edit: hmmm wasn’t the old akuma roundhouse loop a 1 frame link into s.lp? Shit.
1f links have been around forever. Some of the top tier had 1f Super links in 3S though I think they had pianoing to work around it. Lotta stuff in SF2 was 1f (tick throooooooowssss)
Yun had damage nerfs.
TC2: 150 > 120
TC3: 150 > 120
TC4: 160 > 133
TC5: 90 > 72
cr.MP: 60 > 50
Palm: 160 > 140 (chip: 40 > 30)
MK Dragon Kicks: 130 > 110
HP Shoulder: 140 > 100
EX Shoulder: 150 > 130
Overhead during Genei Jin: 85 > 80
HK/MK Dragon Kicks is character specific. If HK works, he’ll do more damage on a command grab with no meter while Yang will do more if it doesn’t. Yang will always do more with meter.
Oh lol i was completely wrong on yun LOL
Super links are not really one frame links due to pianoing, as you said. It’s why i regard stuff like lp, u1 as viable, since you can use negative edge and double tapping for that. And regarding sf2 tick throws, i believe you’re referring to teching/reversaling them? If so, this just proves my point considering how effective they are (and easy) and how hard it is to defend against them (due to leaving a 1 frame window if properly executed).
Some combos were 1f in 2, but I couldn’t give you exactly which ones because I never went ham. Same for 3S, although top tiers seemed to have more than lower tiers did.
My point is this: you can do 1f links without plinking. Trust in yo self! Plinking is only there to increase the odds you don’t drop them in a stressful environment.
well that might be going a bit far. i believe the ibuki “sako” combo where she links from her kick thingies into a stand jab into more kick thingies is also an unplinkable 1 frame link. also fei’s crouching bnb.
anyway, my argument isnt about possible or not.
my risk reward chart doesn’t agree with 2 bars into an unplinkable. but it’s still pretty early for me. my opinion may change as my execution goes up.
it would set up really nicely on a counter hit set up into close fierce tho.
like against an already cornered opponent after they eat 1 combo. low short, close fiercexxxxMP palm fadc on hit into whatever.
the stun would be extreme starting from a counter hit close fierce
so in the lab experimenting with the close fierce for counter hits into palm.
i started working the 2 bar set ups, and they are pretty damned good. starting from counter hit in the corner, you end up at 550 stun and 394dmg. thats more up my alley on the risk reward ratio. i’ll grind the 1 frame jab just for that
so obviously, i want to be able to use the frame trap mid screen, and with or without meter, as to not be predictable and have the opponent think i just wont tech near the corner. i want to be dangerous with it at all times.
i found out that counter hit close fierce links into heavy palm which is +2 on block. on hit the set up does 325 stun, and 228 damage. pretty good numbers for meterless counter hit damage mid screen
now here’s the really good part. because of the way the crouch tech works, you sometimes have people with 3 frame normals trade with the close fierce, robbing you of your counter hit combo.
this will be old to some of you, but at this point you can insert a trade OS
in the event that your counter hit normal trades with a light, you can still combo into ex roll kick, or my personal favorite, Ultra 1
i can’t record, but here’s a video project for someone.
the input would be
:hp: :qcb: :hp:, :qcf::qcf: + :3p: for ultra 1
or
:hp: :qcb: :hp:, :dp: :2k: for a ex roll kick OS
you input the second portion immediately following the second fierce, and before the heavy palm hits
so you end up +2 if the opponent blocks, you get fat stun and corner carry on hit, and if the CH normal trades you potentially get an ultra. you can use this on the mp palm set ups as well
the only drawback is if the opponent hits you with a normal before the fierce connects. in that situation you’ll have probrablly have input everything too fast to notice, and the OS will come out anyway
EDIT- [S]i cant get mk roll kick mid screen, but should work in the corner nope[/S]
nope. just ultra 1 or ex roll kick[S][/S]
i also solved the FADC ultra on both sides problem.
i figured out you can use the previous QCFs from the rekkas as buffers
most people with sweet execution do
:qcf: +:hp:, :qcf: + :hp: ,:mp:+:mk:+:f:, :qcf:,:qcf:+:lp:+:mp:+:hp:
or some variation. maybe 2 dashes or whatever
my hands dont agree with that from the 1P side of the screen. at least not within the time frame that they want for the ultra to link
i had completed the previous method like 3 times ever in training mode. ever. in like 10hrs+ total time trying. i was going to give up and just charge the focus to level 2 and say fuck it
so, anyway, i figured out you can do this instead, and its a shit ton easier.
:qcf:+:hp:,:qcf:+:hp:,:qcf:+:mp:+:mk:, :qcf: +:lp:+:mp:+:hp:
what happens is the forward from the QCF on the second slash, and the forward from the QCF before the focus give you your dash.
the QCF before the focus counts for your ultra, and the last one of course, finishes the combo
the only part that takes some time getting used to(maybe 15min) is the speed you need on the 2 QCFs between the second slash and and the focus. you only get 8 frames between forward inputs or you wont get a dash. you can actually do the last QCF a little slower, and still get the ultra. or you can just mash QCFs+PPP after you hit mp+mk
ive done it over 10 times in like a half hour of practice time
lastly, you can practice the speed for the cancel by just doing QCF+HP, QCF+MP+MK
if the rekka auto cancels into a dash, youre doing it right
I practiced cr.lp, st.hp, mp.palm, FADC, st.lp, cl.mk reset a bunch today in training mode. I think this combo is really quite good. I took it online and did this combo on block and it resulted in some counter hit fierce’s. Even just the beginning part of the combo before the FADC does a lot of damage so I experimented with it even when I didn’t have two bars. Just a question is cr.lp to st.hp a one frame link? I was plinking and didn’t find the link difficult (not nearly as difficult as the st.lp after the FADC)
yeah, thats one frame as well.
cr lp to st lp is a 1 frame link? never thought that
no, crlp to sthp is one frame
crlp to stlp is a chain cancel. if you wanted to link them its 2 frames
oops i need my glasses …
i just figured out ex palm , dash , u1 works even if you start from corner (1 bar for over 500 damage that’s amazing , you can use FA lvl 2 for 495 damage) , i think it’s really solid as punish
also hp palm ,ex senkyutai does more damage than ex palm reverse hk senkuytai in the corner …if anyone cares…
Ex. palm dash U1 is a great punish that I never see used.
As for your second point, ex. palm, cl.mk, hk senkuytai does awesome corner damage but you have to space it correctly
And I’m still convinced that cl.mk, hp.palm, st.hp in the corner is character specific. I just can’t get it to work on certain characters.
because
1.) not many situations where someone is -25 at high level
2.) you’re going to land something else into ultra instead of saving one bar for a -25 punish
it
it’s basically a punish tool , like when you bait a reversal …keep it in mind next time you see a whiffed shoryu…
or u can use the FA lvl 2…