That was it. Holy shit, thank you.
You can do dash > U1.
Yes you can combo U2 from cr.lp.
s.lk has more range. It’s not uncommon that the third cr.lk wiffs after a crossup or a very good dive kick (at the tip of the opponent’s foot), so doing s.lk before will ensure the combo hits and is a good habit.
Seems spot on. I hadn’t seen the math done and people were refering to the FADC as +10, but this seems more accurate.
Well, if you can dash on the 4th frame, I think the actual math is more like:
31-3 (can’t do nothing)
on the 4th frame you are dashing:
31-3-18 = 10
So you are indeed at +10, right?
It feels more like a 3f link than a 2f link, personally. I’m not sure the best way to test if it’s +9 or +10.
Maybe trying to link a cl.hk afterwards, it has 10 frame startup.
Boy do I love reading through 8 pages of stuff just to make sure I’m not reposting things…anyway. Saw it mentioned once that MP Palm can combo into U2 but not U1. This is true. What is not true is that Rekkas FADC is better. (j.HP or Divekick or j.MK or command grab), st.HP xx MP Palm xx FADC, Ultra 2 is Yang’s most damaging Ultra 2 combo and it works anywhere on screen with full animation. Feels like a 3 frame link, but it was not hard to do consistently. Memory is a bit fuzzy (may come back and edit this) but FADC Rekkas does somewhere around 430-450 while MP Palm combo does around 510. Honestly do not see a reason to pick Ultra 1 - even when it doesn’t do the full animation, Ultra 2 does considerable damage if you use the proper set ups (ie don’t FADC Rekka or hit confirm it with cr.LK, cr.LK) and is a very hard punish on fire balls. In addition, I do not think I managed to find an Ultra 1 combo that did more than st.HP xx MP Palm xx FADC, Ultra 2 (excluding EX Palm, dash, Ultra 1 I guess but that only seems viable as a punish for very slow recovering moves)
Another thing I didn’t see mentioned is an EX Palm combo. I’m not sure how optimal it is but I think it does more damage than tacking an FADC, st.HP xx Dragon Kick in the corner after landing a focus attack. It might be character specific (was doing these on Ryu.) Hell, I’ll just list what I remember doing and getting working…
FA3, backdash, HP Palm, HK Dragon Kicks
FA3, backdash, EX Palm, EX Palm, LK Dragon Kicks (can’t remember if I did LK,MK,HK or an MP Palm…though EX Dragon Kick works)
FA3, forward dash, EX Palm, HK Dragon Kick, Ultra 2 (don’t remember if this actually worked or not)
I should mention that backdash, EX palm basically works like Yun’s backdash, HP palm. So there may be some possibilities around it. I couldn’t get the same behavior to occur from HP Palm but perhaps it just didn’t work on Ryu or required unusual timing. Something to look into, maybe.
Finally, for those who have problems consistently doing the cr.MP loop during your Super in the corner, I found something which is incredibly easy and can work as a substitute until you get the timing on loop down. It works if you start from MP Palm xx Super as well. Just cr.MK xx LK Teleport. You won’t teleport behind them and can keep doing that.
Now a question: what should I do after landing st.HP, MP Palm xx Super midscreen? Can’t seem to get the st.HP loop working off that and I haven’t experimented much with this yet.
edit: Also I see one of the punishes frequently mentioned is st.HP, HP Rekka xx FADC, st.HP xx HP Rekka (or the one frame link clst.MP, cr.MK variant.) Hitting st.HP, HP Rekka xx FADC, st.HP, HK Dragon kicks (again, or the one frame link variant) seems to do more damage and leaves you in a better position…so either my memory is trolling me or I don’t see a reason why to use Rekka after an FADC.
Yang’s HP Palm and EX Palm does exactly the same damage so there’s no reason to do a second EX Palm after the first EX Palm. Yang’s most damaging 1 meter punish is EX Palm, HP Palm, far s.HP (I think).
Interesting, I never thought about that. Still, you can’t really expect to land cl.hp xx MP Palm in a match out of focus attack or stun situations. Beste case scenario might be a hit confirm like cr.lp, s.lp, s.mp, mp palm, in which case the Ultra will get severely scaled as well. Both his Ultras are great, imo, I’ve been favoring U1 in most matchups because it has invincibility, can be used as an AA, and is more damaging in most circunstances.
edit: actually, thinking about it, cl.hp xx MP Palm should be possible after command grab, in which case this is very interesting indeed.
Are you sure you can do double EX Palms? I remember trying to find his most damaging combo in day 1 and I definetly tried this, to no avail…EX Palm was way too slow to combo after the wall bounce. I could just suck though…I’ve been doing the EX Palm, HP Palm, HK DP.
HP Rekkas definetly does more damage, like 5 or 10 only though, so I actually do favor the HK DP ender. However, for most damage and corner push, best option is FADC, cl.mk, wiff MK dive kick, cl.mk, HK DP.
I don’t see how you’d have difficulty hitting clst.HP, it’s very easy to get off of dive kicks and cross up MK. It is definitely possible after a command grab as well.
The reason double EX palm works is because the first one hits late for some reason when you FA3 and backdash. I remember Yun’s FA3 palm is character specific too so that may be why you couldn’t get it working.
[287 / 347] clst.HP xx HP Rekkas (x2) xx FADC, clst.HP xx HP Rekkas (x3)
[284 / 380] clst.HP xx HP Rekkas (x2) xx FADC, clst.HP xx HK Dragon Kicks
Once you add in dive kick or cross-up MK, Dragon Kicks does more (and it already does a lot more stun instead of three measly damage.)
Here are other values.
[309 / 404] Dive kick, clst.HP xx HP Rekkas (x2) xx FADC, clst.HP xx HP Rekkas (x3)
[311 / 445] Dive kick, clst.HP xx HP Rekkas (x2) xx FADC, clst.HP xx HK Dragon Kicks
[490 / 320] Dive kick, clst.HP xx MP Palm xx FADC, Ultra 2
[418 / 190] Command grab, clst.HP xx HP Rekas (x2) xx FADC, Ultra 2
[505 / 250] Command grab, clst.HP xx MP Palm xx FADC, Ultra 2
[395 / 605] FA3, back dash, EX Palm, EX Palm, LK Dragon Kicks
[458 / 695] FA3, back dash, EX Palm, HP Palm, EX Dragon Kicks
[419 / 595] FA3. back dash, EX Palm, MP Palm, MK Dragon Kicks
[327 / 460] Command grab, clst.HP xx MP Palm xx FADC, cr.LK, st.LP, cr.MK xx MK Dragon Kicks
[330 / 454] Command grab, clst.HP xx MP Palm xx FADC, cr.LK, st.LP, cr.MK xx HP Rekkas (x3)
[287 / 347] Command grab, clst.HP xx HP Rekkas (x2) xx FADC, clst.HP xx HP Rekkas (x3)
Double wall bounce. But, other than Ultra 2, EX Dragon Kicks and LK Dragon Kicks, nothing else seems able to connect from the second wall bounce…
quick edit: Actually, EX Rekkas might. But if it’s like I think it is, you can only hit the first two EX Rekkas. You can link that into Ultra 2 if you want to look cool too.
You can’t possibly hit confirm cl.hp. You could do something like cr.lp, s.lp, s.mp xx mp palm, but damaging scaling might bring it to U1 level. I’m fine with doing crossup mk/divekick, cl.hp xx palm (this is actually a good frame trap if they block the mk. If they’re crouch teching it will tag them) and then confirmming the FADC into ultra, but keep in mind a blocked palm is not safe.
Appreciate the dmg/stun values, I had no idea dragon kicks did so much more stun (I usually run training with stun off). I might go with it as my BnB over rekkas always now.
Otori, you can combo cr.lk, s.lp, cl.hp. The s.lp, cl.hp link is a 3f link; don’t even have to plink that shit.
I appreciate all these numbers (@Staying Free), and I’ll be hitting the lab now to test. Something I want to test is if FADCing into cl.hp xx hp hp lp rekkas is a better choice than cl.hp xx mp palm.
I’ll be hitting the lab myself concerning the prior noted combos. Highly appreciate this, mate.
If nothing else, I think we’re seeing that the best stun/FA crumple combo possible is FA3, back dash, EX Palm, MP Palm, MK Dragon Kicks
Unless you’re playing online (where reactions can be significantly harder), you have more than enough time to confirm that Yang’s dive kick or cross up MK connected. Throw in command grab alongside punishing moves - not to mention dive kicking over a fireball and tagging the opponent’s lower waist - and I think it’s a pretty staple combo find. Of course, you may need to actually practice hit confirming off of the two moves (I’ve been working with Seth’s new dive kick so the hit stun on both feels like an eternity to me…)
Dunno why you’d want to hit confirm a FADC combo to be honest, if I land a hit confirm combo I’m not wasting the meter unless it’s a sure fire kill (scaling KILLS Yang’s FADC combos if you hit confirm them.)
Oh, I thought range wouldn’t allow it. Why the fuck no japanese Yang player does this then? I might stick with U2 then and live with the crappy animation that takes 5 days.
And I’m still not buying the hit confirm only from the dive kick/crossup lol. Unless you see the opponent stick something out, ok, but I’ve never seen an Akuma/Evil Ryu/Seth/Rufus (who has more hitstun in the divekick) do dive kick, cl.hp, there’s always a cr.lp(or s.lk, in Rufus’ case) in between to give you time, but ok, I’ll take your word for it.
Edit: FADC the palm is weird for me lol, I’m got used to the extremely-fast-before-move-comes-out FADC of rekkas for U1.
Because cl.hp doesn’t reach as far as cr.mk? Not sure, personally. And you have to be point blank on the cr.lk in order to get the cl.hp.
I personally can’t hit confirm off of a dive kick. Now, I can easily confirm off of a cl.hp xx lp rekka, and that’s safe, free chip. If you’re in the same boat as me, you might want to do cl.hp xx lp rekka, hp rekka fadc …
Dunno about other Seth players but I only do cr.LP to combo into st.HP because it’s way easier to do execution-wise. Seth’s dive kick hit stun is also a lot less than other dive kicks. But, using the above, should make it viable regardless.
Both have the same frame startup.
I wonder why you can’t combo U1 like this, the startup on U2 is really misleading. Anyway, dive kick, s.lp, cl.hp xx MP Palm, FADC, U2 seems a really, really good option. Extremely damaging and faceroll easy.
I always thought it was 5 frames, but turns out that’s cr.LK…now I feel kind of stupid. Maybe I’ve just been able to hit confirm the dive kicks because of people pressing buttons during their wake up so often. And yeah, I thought it might have been a 1f link to get U1 working but after ten minutes of trying it I just gave up.
Just to add one combo:
[310/465] Dive Kick, cl.hp, rekka x2, FADC, cl.mk, wiff dive kick, cl.mk, HK DP.
And, man, FADC palm U2 after command grab is the most amazing thing I’ve ever seen.
I still think FA3, backdash, palm, palm, roll kick looks sick.
God damn, I’m striving with the palm fadc U2. Weirdly, I can do both U1 and U2 fine from rekkas, but from palm I get EX DP 90% of the times. I feel I need a slight pause at neutral after the dash for the ultra to come out. Gotta refine my execution.
So, I tried a FA3, cl.MK, Ex Palm, EX-Roll Kick into U2 corner combo, trying to find the best 2 meter punish possible there.
It’s a pain in the ass to get the proper spacing after the wall-bounce to fully hit u2.
It’s still over 500 damage.
Also, I have trouble doing two palms in the row.