MASSIVE Boxer(balrog) issue that was overlooked in remix mode

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
1

I haven’t seen this mentioned in the boxer or other threads, so I’m making a thread on this subject.

I remember before the game came out and a couple people had a concern with Rog’s tap being changed to kk and pp, if it would affect negative edging moves. For instance, in ST, i’ll hold kkk for tap, and if I need a rush uppercut, i would do b,f+release short to get my rush upper(and lose my tap charge of course).

When the game came out, I totally forgot about this question and never bothered to test to see how it works in remix mode with the execution changed to kk and pp, respectively. Afrolegends brought it to my attention and said that he could no longer negative edge his specials using the buttons that he was holding for TAP. I decided to look further into it. and found some bizarre findings.

First thing I tried to do was see if I can replicate Afro’s problem(which is major for boxer) and see if i can negative edge a b,f+short while holding kkk. When I first tried, i could get them out a few times in a row. And I thought to myself that Afro was totally imagining things. But then I was trying more and realized I couldnt do it anymore for some reason. So wtf is up with this?

I learned that if you just hold kk, the remaining kick button is still active to be used. For example, I am hold fwd and rh kick buttons for the tap, while holding these 2 buttons, I can STILL attack with short normally. Well this seems kinda bullshit I would think. Having access to a kick button while doing a kick tap charge. It sounds silly. But after a couple seconds, the short kick button became disabled. basically the button was absolutely dead for the duration of the TAP charge. I couldn’t use it to negative edge ANYTHING. I couldnt even hold short again, and release it, just to get a TAP to come out. The button was 100% disabled until I Released the other 2 kicks.

This poses a HUGE problem for rog players, and now I can see why afro has an issue with this game. TAP has become a lot worse(which was not by design). I’m sure some people are gonna ask “cant you just charge with 2 kicks(which the game allow) then just release one of those 2 buttons for the negative edge moves?” and the answer is NO YOU CAN NOT!

To a certain extent. There’s more to it I found.

I learned, once TAP reaches his 2 count on the TAP, thats where the 3rd button will lose its functionality, so no more attacks from that button, or negative edging. I also learned, that once TAP reaches 2 count, you also can’t negative edge a move using only KK for the TAP and just releasing one of those buttons. If you try to negative edge, the tap will come out EVERY single time.

NONE of this is true in vanilla ST. In vanilla, you could charge tap all you want and you could always negative edge one of the held buttons into a special. In remix, you can only negative edge(and also non negative edge since one button can be free) until 2 count. On the plus side, its wild that you can still have access to one button while charging to do attacks(which was impossible in vanilla ST), but that’s a huge price to pay for losing all negative edge tactics after charging for almost 2 seconds.

This is a huge nerf. I have tested and found all these discoveries myself. This is confirmed. If anyone has anything to add to this. please post. Wondering what everyone thinks about this

2

That’s really disappointing. There’s been a few other oversights with the new motions and properties too.

3

Ouch. Even if that was intended, that seems like a pretty big trade off considering you are now forced to throw out the TAP.

4

Wow, I don’t play Boxer but that sounds really shitty.

I know this is a little tangental, but maybe if someone cares, they can answer this: How good of a buff would it be if this glitch got fixed, and the input for the move (charge 2P or 2K only) remained the same, allowing him full access to one of his three punch/kick normals while charging TAP?

5

Pretty strange, especially since nothing was specified in the changes about it.
Might be another thing that slipped through and was undetected.
I’m no boxer player either, so i can’t confirm or deny anything.

6

Can it be done in this games “Classic” mode? If so, it should be an easy patch to change HDR version back to that specific command/input function. (because the coding involed with the inputs would already be there, it would be a minor code tweak I would think)

7

That’s yet another nerf to Balrog, though it was unintended. If it is gonna be patched, it should be brought back to the way it was in ST. He should be able to negative edge into Upper while charging TAP, but he shouldn’t have access to his kick normals while charging kk TAP (ie. cr.Forward). If Balrog can normal kick while charging kk TAP, it will be a buff, and he’s already top tier and doesn’t need it.

8

I was kinda surprised they didn’t fix his super where sometimes it would lag after the first or second hit and allow for a reversal out of it.

9

They didn’t fix it because it’s not a problem… it’s normal that that happens.

10

I had previously only known about Rog’s inability to negative edge the buttons used for tap. I didn’t know about the “level 2 tap rule” that Sabre discovered, though. I think with that discovery brings a lot of funky gameplay. Imagine Rog holding short and roundhouse for tap against guile, and being able to do cr. forward to beat guile’s cr. forward(for a few secs) and having access to punch buttons and a level 2 tap waiting in the wings.

I don’t know why you would charge longer than a level 2 tap now, but I still wouldn’t trade that for being able to negative edge during tap. That option select was great, because you could use TAP to beat out Honda’s HHS and negative edge his high rush for his jump ins on reaction. Rog has less options now, so I think it was a big nerf, that was unintended. I would like to see them fix this if they decide to patch the game up. If not, I’ll just have to take advantage of Rog’s new “level 2 tap rule”, as funky as it is.

11

Danm!

No more longer TAPs i guess.
I never used 2k or 2p TAPs so far (because i play more Classic matches), but wow.
Gotta get used to it if they’re not planning to fix it. Oh danm this is Huge.

12

That’s your opinion. It could be said that “that issue” was also a bug that needed to be fixed like certain characters not being able to reversal super.

13

It’s not an opinion. It’s an undeniable fact, and you’re wrong. And by the way, that’s an absolutely retarded analogy.

14

:rolleyes:

Honda’s super was fixed (kinda) by Sirlin for just about the same reason. No need to be a dick about it.

15

Except Honda’s super could be reversed when done from anywhere on the screen (except maybe really close/point blank?), so it’s not the same at all. For Balrog’s super to stall, it has to be done at a specific distance, and possibly requiring the opponent to be in/near the corner. This is the equivalent to you saying Dee Jay should always connect all 4 hits of his super if he gets his first hit, which is just dumb.

16

Deejay’s super is pretty different. It’s impossible to tell what the original Capcom ST team considers “arcade canon”, but that Balrog super lag happens to me all over the screen. Granted only really good players have the reaction time to reversal it, but it still looks stupid. To me anyway.

Street Fighter. Serious Business.

17

Those rules are weird, and prolly unintended. But I’m not a Rog player: I read the pros and cons, but does this hurt him more or benefit more that he can use a button during the first two seconds of TAP charge?

18

Just came back from some offline casual.
In general, it DOES hurt my Rog.

19

Out of curiosity, since I don’t play 'Rog at all, will the same problems/effects happen if you charge all 3 kicks like before?

20

They should just make it so you can use the extra button for specials but not for normals…