Boxer was my main in Vanilla ST and maybe it’s just my playstyle, but I have not noticed this… I guess because when I am charging TAP if I see a jump in I just cr. FP that shit.
No thank you.
That would be ridiculous. Being able to constantly use any special move while charging tap?
So you hold down MK and HK and can use the Charge Uppercut without losing TAP. SaBrE is saying that he can’t do the special and lose his TAP.
yeah that would be pretty ridiculous if you could use the free button to do specials while still keeping the tap charge. I’m fine with the 3rd button being 100% disabled, that’s how it should be. but you should still be able to negative edge one of the 2 buttons being held, at all times
I do remember reading somewhere in Sirlin’s articles that the TAP charge shouldn’t be able to allow the use of the free kick button. I also remember something about it only disabling that button once a level is charged. So from my recollection, this part is intended.
edit: http://www.sirlin.net/articles/street-fighter-hd-remix-balrog.html at “Turn around punch” details this.
The bit about being unable to negative edge after the charge though… that sounds less intentional…
i found this exact same shit sabre is talking about a couple days ago in training mode. my findings were “weird” to say the least, i have one question that somebody might be able to answer: can rog now option select throw breaking w/o the need for a punch or kick to come out since kick can be input with no move coming out??? 'cause even tho he has no kick throws he can soften throws with medium or hard kicks.
-dime
If it’s not hard to fix during the course of the patch I don’t see why they shouldn’t fix this glitch. However, Boxer is still a BEAST, and it’s pretty strange to see people acting like it’s the end of the world while characters like Cammy and Fei Long are so much worse off. Seriously, just compare the change list of those two characters to Honda’s and you’ll see what I mean. Honda got compensated for every thing he lost while the same is not true for Fei Long and Cammy despite the fact they were lower ranked than he was.
I remember Sirlin saying it felt wrong to nerf Honda’s ochio throw considering his place in the tiers and that “Honda’s Ochio should do 100% damage on Guile if he connects” and yet I feel he didn’t apply that same philosophy for Cammy and Fei Long despite the fact they suffer just as much against keep away tactics. For example, compare Fei Long’s short chicken wing to Honda’s headbutt.
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Fei must do his move much later than Honda because only the start up is invincible to fireballs. What this means is he can be swept almost every time he uses it even at full screen.
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Honda’s move knocks down and is always safe on block while Fei’s doesn’t knock down, can leave him vulnerable to throws, and worse than that if done at max range only the first hit connects and he can be swept afterwards.
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It also gets hit by Sagat’s high tiger shots at start up. Can you seriously say that was intentional or even necessary in this match up?
It just seems wrong to me that Honda got a better floating fierce, a trip guard lk, and his invincible at start up headbutt got a fireball negation property while Fei Long got very little when you consider his ranking in ST. Personally, I think Fei Long got even more nerfed than Honda overall by losing his chicken wing traps and his safe flame kick.
Overall, they should fix Balrog’s glitch, but I think some people are making way too big of deal about it when other characters really got shafted in comparison. I apologize if I’m speaking out of turn. I know I’m not a veteran ST player, but I think anyone that looks at the issue objectively will probably come to the same conclusion I did.
edit: I am in no way trying to put down the excellent work Sirlin did in the game. The game turned out great, and I know he was trying to be fair in balancing the characters. However, when it comes to Fei and Cammy I feel they are overall underpowered.
I don’t recall many people overreacting to this Balrog TAP glitch. Is there a thread somewhere else where this is going on, or something? I don’t see any people acting like it’s the end of the world…
People are pretty bummed out about it. They’re saying it’s really hurting their balrog game and that it’s a big trade off. Maybe they aren’t going as ape shit as the people in the ban akuma thread, but this thread IS literally called “MASSIVE (Boxer) Balrog issue overlooked in remix mode” so maybe they are overreacting just a little bit.
Cammy’s fuckin’ good now. I don’t see where you’re getting that Cammy is “underpowered” She got buffed a ton, and I stress a ton.
Yeah. I brought up concerns about this way back in the discussion thread-
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5767749&postcount=6360
and I confirmed the problem right after it came out.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5782811&postcount=7299
I was pretty bummed out at first and it definitely sucks missing this additional option. I don’t know that it’s a massive issue though, but maybe just because I’m unaware of the full possibilities the technique allowed, like I never thought about using it in the Honda match that way.
Its kind of disappointing that nobodies like myself are completely ignored when we bring up stuff like this though, and it takes a big name to mention it for anybody to start caring.
well, i never did notice it and tried searching for it. but never found it. besides, I think it deserved it’s own thread. it’s no big deal.
people probably arent overly reactig like crazy or anything. hell most didnt even realize the problem. but its a big oversight when something is not working correctly. will this really bring rog down more? i dont think it will. but then again, i’m not a rog user
Zerodotjander…you never used the words MASSIVE or BAN in your post. It’s your fault entirely.
Im not worried about this problem, i think its reasonnable.
It would be dope we have that 3rd button enable tho. We just have to get used to it.
So is this will bring Rog down? Well, i think it wont. Our playstyle will be different thats for sure.
This is the quote from that link to Sirlin’s site:
“To be consistent with the rest of the game, this move can now be performed by pressing and releasing just two punches or two kicks, rather than three. I dont want to allow Balrog to access fierce and roundhouse while he charges turn punches though, so heres how that works. While you are holding two punches (or two kicks) to charge the turn around punch, you CAN press the third punch (or kick) and get it to work. But once youve held the buttons long enough that youre actually charged for a turn around punch, pressing the third button will do nothing at all. You dont really need to grasp that though. The point is that you can either do the move the same way as always with three buttons, or just use two, but no one can really exploit this by charging up a final-punch while doing fierces and roundhouses at the same time.”
So as I understand it, the intention was for Balrog to be able to use normals and specials while charging TAP, but only until the 1st level was charged. At which point the third button would become disabled. As it is now, this only happens at the 2nd level of TAP.
But with Balrog, as soon as you hold down and release KK or PP, he’s ALREADY charged for a TAP. So it makes no sense to say “But once youve held the buttons long enough that youre actually charged for a turn around punch, pressing the third button will do nothing at all.”
As I understand it now, this “problem” was actually intended right from the beginning. If it is going to be patched, it needs to be brought back to the way it was in ST. Negative edging allowed but then TAP charge is lost, but no normals or specials while charging TAP.
Thanks for the heads up fluxcore.
Cammy got buffed up INCREDIBLY, you really have to get out more if you don’t know why. Everything she does is incredibly safe now…
“Unintended features” that hurt Boxer are OK, because he’s Boxer and deserves every nerf you can throw at him. Why else is he the only character to receive no improvements at all?
Dhalsim gets noogie loop nerfed, but gets better Yoga Blast.
Claw gets dive loop nerfed, but gets dive cancel.
Chun gets neckbreaker nerf, but gets crazy SBK.
Boxer gets the cock.
I mean, it would have been nice to see the super glitch get fixed, if nothing else. And make no mistake, that’s a glitch; if it were Chun, Dictator, Honda, Fei Long, etc. (read: anyone but Boxer) that had an arbitary and illogical half-second pause inserted when your opponent is near the corner, it would have been first in line to get fixed.
There’s no logical reason behind that pause. It’s a dumb glitch that has been ignored because Boxer is still good anyway.
Strong and Fierce Headbutts got more range. That’s a buff.
His Super does the most damage in the game, yet is completely safe. I’d trade an occasional pause between hits for that. I’d trade even more than that, but 'nuff said.
If that pause didn’t exist, the next punch would whiff. It only does that pause (in the corner) specifically because of that reason. It seems pretty intentional to me.
His super damage got nerfed. Only his jab and strong headbutt travel slightly farther (that’s a nerf) and have more recovery. The fierce headbutt is unchanged.
I strongly doubt that it would “whiff” in any sort of remotely realistic scenario. But even if it did, it would be preferable to have the move act normally (you know, like it does in every other SF game in the same position) than to insert an arbitrary, flashing-neon-HIT-ME-NOW-sign. If the pause to avoid a whiff is specific and intentional (and therefore presumably intended to benefit Boxer), why has it been omitted from all future SF games?
Honestly though, the idea that it is intentionally there to prevent whiffing just seems silly; the cure is far worse than the disease. Would Fei Long’s super be better if it inserted a similar delay in the same situation? No, it’d be a drastic nerf. And even though Fei’s super has just recently been made not-invincible in HDR, somehow I doubt you will ever see people punishing a whiffed third hit of Fei’s super at the same rate that you see people punishing the delay-glitched Boxer super.
for an mvc2 player that also loves ST since both of their inceptions… i find the two button TAP charge a godsend… possibly it is just the way i think from playing marvel all these years… but, in my mind, charging TAP(charged down/back) with lk,mk with a neutral hk creates a situation where the charged TAP attack acts as the main character and the charged buffalo headbutt(with a few other options, though this one will be used the most for aggressive opponents) as a pseudo-assist waiting to be called to shut down any offensive move towards you.(think captain commando anti-air assist)
… like i said before… it is probably because of my extensive marvel2 history that i base most game engines on that game in one way or another… but… all being said… the method i just explained works for me… and a similar version using lp,mp while keeping hp neutral to use allows long pokesg while TAP is chargin… while holding mp,hp allows forward jab dash punches that can be used to bait into a TAP if the opponent tries to punish the dash punch.:wonder:
… the only restriction i see are these strats needing to be done quickly if what the OP said is true about losing the ability to use the free button after a few seconds… though a few seconds is a long time in the world of ST:arazz:
… hope this helped/enlightened someone