How hard is it to understand that macros are in the home release
What I don’t understand is why is this a problem? Plenty of older games have been re-released with bindings in them that didn’t originally have them and no one bitched about their inclusion. From what I take in this thread the binding give more infinite possibilities to a game that has plenty of them.
The funny thing is that these people are acting like a whole bunch of new people are going to come in and start comboing them to death.
Please don’t fool yourselves. The GGPO crowd will be the only people playing this, and they’ll infinite or chip you to death with or without macros.
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Funny thing is, I’m not the only one who claims to be able to do something similar… Bernie can do it, and he is well-known to be a HUGE anti-macro supporter.
And tell that to all the WM players 10 YEARS AGO who were already doing fly semi-infinites.
So is fanatiq a bad player because he uses macros? Does that fact that he has a button designated for a dash all of a sudden make him a bad player? Sure his dashes have a lesser chance of not dropping but still does that take away from his skill as a player?
fanatiq prefers pad but he has done very well on stick before which is a difference compared to most of the people who abuse bindings.
and if you talk to yipes\desmond\smoothviper about OBD\macro, they will flat out tell you its cheating. It does take away a bit of his skill because an input world champions missed regularly, he never could not because he practiced harder but because of the macro.
fanatiq is still a pretty good player but he does use things not many OGs consider legit and for good reason. No one on this forum can input a dash 1000x perfectly for years on end, it doesn’t exist. While the input is incredibly simple, it has to be inputted so often for versus games even world champions fuck it up. If the button is binded, that mistake is never available and its giving an edge to the player using the bind.
yes, they did bitch about them. I just don’t think you were around but it was actually a hot topic on srk when EVO announced that their then on console tournament would allow button binding. A lot of people said it was cheating iirc and this quite some time ago like 2k2-2k4
its just over the years, people have accepted the bindings as part of the game because of the EVO rules. That doesn’t mean its right, can’t appeal to authority simply because they’re an authority. Its not like EVO is 100% perfect in itself. Multiple bad ports of ST @ EVO and the last 3 years of marvel including the last mvc2 tournament was ran on ps3 which is by far the worst version of the game. Just because its @ EVO, doesn’t mean its the tourney standard.
Ok I think i better understand this argument now. But why isn’t execution not good enough for human error? And marcos aren’t just a pad player thing what about 8 button sticks, why does it seem like most the bashing is on pad players?
because pad players are much more prone to using macros due to the fact its much more comfortable and convienent to use 1 button for dash instead of trying to press 3 buttons at the same time.
It’s not about the margin of failure. It’s the fact that you MUST press TWO buttons (in this case 3 buttons) to input the dash. You can map the Start and Select to be your designated punch buttons, but you must press two buttons. I don’t see a Hadouken button anywhere. Why should there be a dash button?
Didn’t Fanatiq have to sacrifice an assist for that binding? Even if they felt he was cheating using them he still handicapped himself losing a valuable option to dash comfortably.
Did people have problems with binding in other games like SF? I haven’t from my experience. I don’t see how binding is cheating as provides Pad players like me to do things comfortably. I play with a regular Playstation pad. I wouldn’t be able to call assists in Skullgirls if I don’t have bind to a button
In one game it gives you like an extra option too a vital move or something, but in another it gives you access to an infinite made easy as hell. The same principles don’t apply to every game.
The Hadouken Button rebuttal makes no sense because that involves a motion which no game lets you macro except SFxT. Pressing 3 buttons on a pad is pretty dumb yes, but that still doesn’t warrant the extra bashing, stick players can use them 7th and 8th button.
Why complain when the macro is for everyone?
first of all, im pretty sure bernie is a keyboard/stick player, and you took what he said out of context because he said wm infinite isnt too bad because it uncombos itself pretty easily, and for those who dont know about that shit look it up. i mean, i dont know, i have pretty good execution, and i know rogueyoshi does, and i still will drop wolvie infinite after 3-4 reps using a stick, where either it doesnt combo and all i get is pressure or i get down hp because im not a robot, and even with a specific amount of practice dedicated to something like the wolvie dash lp, mp infinite alone, i would still drop it more often then macro players do because its just simple human error.
i doubt any tournies or locals would be creative enough to run an msh and or mvc1 tourney post release anyways, since you gotta suck stream monster dick and only play what they want. not to mention 3/4 of the new players are like msh what, mvc1 what. no hate, but im just saying its not likely for you too see this played outside of casuals between scrubs and online.
but the debate is pretty straight forward. players are disappointed that their online experience might be extra shat on in both these games because of how much of an advantage you get being able to play with macro’s, and a lot of times all you can do is sit and just look dumb as you get infinited and or pressured to death. lets not forget that xbox360 has keyboards, so ggpo players will fit right in fine.
i mean, i know people are just caught in the moment and arguing to be arguing but if youd rather play people online who dont abuse macros, then hit up forums and people on xbl/psn, and only play them. you wont be seeing a tourney for this anytime soon anyway, so its really a non issue outside of being mad about being bossed up online by a macro user. the rest of the argument i say save for another thread.
lets maintain our hate towards no turbo 2 over this macro shit.
so in short
yes macros suck
no players cannot accept the handicap of playing on pad or kb, will refuse to learn stick, and will give you hell about macros being fine
fanatiq amongst others are macro users and he is the most well known one from the old school, but ive seen him also first hand do fine on a stick playing xvsf and the likes. although better on pad, he is aware of his advantage, but also can play on stick. its just that in a game like mvc2 there were so many godly players, on top of his assist handicap, that it wasnt a ridiculously huge issue, unlike other older Vs games where you can really reap some benefits from macro’s.
its a shame that the honest conversations that use to happen about this topic are no longer discussed because of all this stream, sponsorship bullshit. so now all you see and hear is like the stream ego driven banter, or the nice nice its all good we’re a community of players who have to use different tools bullshit, but the reality of the matter is generally a bit different, but its beating a dead horse for alot of older players now because what are you going to do, and those games where you excelled most from macros are no longer played at a tourney level.
i dont know, i dont want a truly handicapped player to not be able to enjoy the fruits of his labor studying a game because he just really cannot excel because of a lack of an ability to map 3p/3k, whatever. at the end of the day, its just games, and yes, there should be a tourney standard if thats ever necessary in the future for these old Vs games, but for the most part, just get drunk and play. if you dont like those kinds of players, seek out to find others that suit your definition of fairness for the game. no big
i mean i think the honest opinion is that macro’s ruining a players experience for the game says a lot about the quality of the game, more then a problem with the player.
the comparison to what you can do in older vs games vs mvc2 or mvc3 with macros is a bit of a deeper convo. you can really get away with crazy shit in mvc1 and before. i mean even using a pad has its advantages and disadvantages like for example, before i got my stick for xbox i played mvc2 online with a pad. blocking my rogue online was just fucking retarded besides any online issues, because my movement just had almost zero holes in it because of the macro dashing, and even bigger then that i could dive kick almost instantly off the ground and it still hit overhead. it was impossible to react to, as you could almost barely even see the dive kick come out. got a stick, yeah, only 1 in every maybe 20-30 kicks i got one of those super divekicks i use to get with rogue because the motion from sj, u, d took that much longer, and only if i was super zoning, or mostly by the luck of marvel did i get one of those boss nigga dive kicks.
but anyways, lets try to lead away from stick vs everything else discussion and talk mvc1 strats, players, turbo2, history, ect… if we can. i mean there is a reality to the advantages and disadvantages of stick, pad, and keyboard, but i mean start a new thread for it imo. if you dont understand how a macro pad or keyboard player in msh or mvc1 would be retarded and overly dominating to the point that it just feels dumb to play the game, then youre fucking stupid. smart people know whats crackin, but lets move on.
even though im a pad player and i dont see a problem with macros in most cases, i do realize the points of why people wouldnt want macros in so i agree. well said
You can shut up now.
Err, read the context then.
We were talking about whether 3p combos/infs were doable on stick, which is the EXACT context now here as well.
Doesn’t sound like a 3p execution error, but rather that you’re just doing it too slowly?
Mag-style clawing/sliding LK helps (and using the easier “LK c.HP” also helps).
You get down hp when you hit down+3p too early. This happens EVEN with a 3p macro.
I just want to ask… can you do the Wolv dash inf consistently WITH the 3p macro (i.e. pad/kb)? Like, up to 99 hits, even if it started midscreen with quite some distance from the opponent? Just asking, because these sound like the problems I was encountering when I was first learning it.
Anyway, I’m not joining the side of the debate who wants to keep macros… I already said earlier that I agree that it removes the factor of human error and should be banned in serious matches (e.g. money matches and tourneys).
My only point is just that it is NOT hard to do the 3p combos on stick. AT ALL.
Heck, just look at all the XvSF vids on Zachd’s site, the Magnetos there can do TONS of ROM reps. And in MvC1, you don’t need tons, all you need is 8-10 reps (WM glove kills after 8-10 dashes, Wolv’s dash inf wall carries at around 8 dashes, from there you can just do the 100% uncombo).
If macros for current games aren’t being challenged there is no point in arguing about macros for these past games
It’s because the second you say something about macros and current games you’re drowned out in uninformed people yelling elitism and other random bullshit.
thank you for telling me everything i already know. sorry if omitting small shit in my post infuriated you, and no i dont play on pad or kb for this game, never have, so im not sure how easier macros are for it. but cmon, everyone knows how it affects these games
and the advantages these players have as kb and pad players already, mixed in with macros. whatever, it sucks, but wtf you gonna do, because it wont be legit in a tourney or mm setting.
whatever, im done with the macro topic. we’ll all just see in mm’s and when it drops online whos just a theory fighter, and who actually plays. eh
its just because it breaks it more then mvc2 or 3. the fact of the matter is imo, almost all fighting games are better expressed via stick. the battlefield is fair on stick, and anything you achieve on stick that is god like takes more hard work and dedication then on any other medium. FACT. but by all means just start up another execution thread and id rather chime in there then here with this convo. im officially done with it. call sister a whore, dont care. i wont reply to anymore macro talk.
someone link me some mvc1 tech. lol
what is the 100% uncombo? I cant find notation for it anywhere.
I have lots I want to say, both on macros and about the game itself, but I gotta shower first.
lemme just say for now, no turbo 2 is a dealbreaker for me. as i can not get on ggpo, this will undoubtedly force me to just stop playing this game again if turbo 2 isnt in, and thats a shame as I wanted to add another Marvel game to the list of fighting games I am semi decent at