Marvel Tiers for New Players

Classic Fighting Games Marvel VS Capcom 2
121

I actually sorta agree with shadedwolf. my experience at EVO showed me that even players who were better than myself didn’t know how to fight an IM who can A2G/kill your team from it. the people I play against know how to fight that type of IM better than most people.

mixup: could you elaborate how he places too well? aside from 3rd at SB3…?

IM can be soooo cheap once he gets the hit (or mostly once mag gives it to him) but trying to play against a sent or storm that knows how to fight him, heck even a mag that knows how (just bait him then mash psy, seriously) it can go either way really. it really helps if your opponent is inexperience against that type of IM.

122

Stop assuming which teams people pick. strider doom is fucking horrible btw, not versatile in the slightest. When you’re making lists like this one in the future, please dont dumb them down to this level. You’re completely overlooking that ironman has basically some of the best priority in the entire game(sentinel, magneto and storm included). I used to be on the other side of this fence but now that i play ironman i have changed my mind.

Beats, Ironman has been doing well for years, its JUST like it used to be with magneto where you only have a few people who are actually able to play him properly at first(also you need the gdlk execution which 99% dont have)

Maybe i am overstating things but I *personally feel that ironman will continue to improve.

btw, i play combofiend and ironman/sent/cyc and i understand the points about the piggybacking, but those options you mention are just the icing imo.

123

For real, the fact that magneto’s game opens up threefold when he has psylock doesn’t make him any worse, it makes him better. DHC into iron man is BEAST, and can only improve him. Think about it, like when MSP DHC’s into storm with full health and 3 bars, that’s team chemistry. Same thing with Iron man, the fact that he’s a team player doesn’t in any way make him bad.

124

Rofl dude listen to yourself:

“Stop assuming which teams people pick.”

But then right afterward:

“btw, i play combofiend”

Furthermore “strider doom is fucking horrible btw, not versatile in the slightest.”

Are you kidding me? Instead of flaming me read what kind of stuff you post.

I never said IM was BAD I said he isn’t good enough to be considered a god tier for reasons that you never addressed… then you come back toward the end of your post and basically admit I’m right. And no, you don’t need “godlike” execution because you don’t need “godlike execution” for infinite and guard break.

125

In fairness, Mixup has probably forgotten more about the game than most of us will ever know… and plays against what is IMHO one of the top four Strider/Dooms for, what, 80% of the matches he’s played in the past 2-3 years?

But it seems like theory fighter. “Is Iron Man Great Or Really Great?” Who cares?
At a high level, once he lands a hit, it should be a minimum of half life, give or take resets. And he has one of the most guaranteed guard breaks in the game, which I don’t think you can value highly enough. The argument was made “but he needs to land a hit…” - but that’s the story for pretty much everyone in the game.

I’m way more afraid of solo Iron Man than I am of solo Strider. With Strider I don’t even really bother attacking him so much as Doom. Iron Man you want dead ASAP.

126

I disagree here, when IM gets a hit it should be a minimum of a dead character whereas Mag or Cyclops which Shaded suggested (also Cyclops doesn’t have air dash/fly so he can’t mix it up like IM) would have to reset or dhc and it still might not be enough and if IM is full health even Storm/Sent dhc isn’t enough. A good execution IM just needs one hit opening unless he’s fighting against a character like Sentinel, but even then you can snap, infinite next character to death, then when Sentinel comes back guard break him and finish.

I agree with Mike, no one uses IM close to potential. He has a lot of setups he can force that you can’t avoid that will force you to block and if you aren’t in sj mode or you push block in sj you’re going to eat a guard break and gg but even if you block on the ground without a push block IM has a string into reverse throw with drones and he can start his infinite and gg anyways. Plus IM has a bunch of unused unblockables.

IM may not be god tier, but once he gets that hit, Ironman Tier is the only tier that matters.

I think Strider/Doom lacks god tier potential, because it requires too many chances, too many situation specific circumstances even after Strider lands a hit, whereas when IM gets the hit there’s nothing much the opponent can do.

127

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“One hit” does not lead into infinite it doesn’t work that way. That’s pure exaggeration. People trade hits, assists get in the way, this isn’t training mode. Heck even simple stuff like checking if IM has unfly will save you from dying to an air to ground setup.

The first two videos are of fanatiq vs illan, where fanatiq almost takes it even though he is playing like a total gimp, missing almost every snap, doing 3 hit combos like launch lp hp. If an MSP playing this bad comes this close that says A LOT especially since Illan does do a lot of the stuff you guys are talking about.

The other two vids are Illan against Killakelly for reference, two of the best (if not the best) IM players in marvel… and no it’s not one hit = death… I really don’t think a lot of you guys realize how IM actually plays. Everyone has these misconceptions that IM touches you once and it’s GGPO. Yes, that is true in some situations, but like Preppy said so himself that’s a problem every character in the game touches.

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^THIS. This is the exact playstyle I am talking about. And I picked this video where IM WINS. But what kind of wins? Playing to suck out. This kind of sad win against an opponent who is either having controller problems or is a beginner. Don’t even know where to begin… random tags, sometimes 4 in one match. Inability for IM to play solid on point. Piggybacking on god tier’s backs. And I guess this is something that people have been noticing for awhile because someone pointed it out in that same youtube video (and got flamed for it for some reason)

Heck Blackheart is arguably god tier if you want to start boosting characters. He has a myriad of good points as well; I can easily say if he touches you you’re done also. And lol at laughing at S/D… have you ever been trapped in a good S/D? People talking about “godlike execution” IM but then comparing “godlike execution” to random everyday S/Ds… **if there’s any team that is god tier with “godlike execution” it is S/D. You can’t have it both ways.
**
That’s like saying “just don’t get hit” as a justification for character tiers it doesn’t work that way. To my knowledge there are setups for anakaris to mummy all 3 of your characters (with inescapable guard breaks) once your first character gets mummied. Is anakaris god tier? No, he is not god tier even though he has abilities similar to the god tier and can do hi low mixups. Heck even dhalsim should then have a case to be god tier.

IM is missing some tools that the god tier absolutely have (and must have) to be god tier. Case in point IM does not have a DHC OUT to protect himself from dying or his teammate. He doesn’t have one in the air nor on the ground. This already, is huge. This also means he does not have a frame kill (unless once again, you’re piggybacking on Magneto’s back for HIS frame kill setup). His alpha counter is near worthless and will get you killed… sure there are uses for it but once again, not nearly comparable to the god tier.This is just icing on the cake.

So it is because of these reasons, that IM is NOT god tier. He is TOP tier, and he is a great character and has many strengths and has a near inescapable guardbreak/infinite but those limiting factors previously discussed prevent him from being god tier.

128

it sounded like elderGOD was sorta agreeing with everyone. IM is no god tier, but because he can get 1 hit and kill (I’ve seen it and I’ve done it) that puts him about under the gods and makes up for how much they can really own him

IM has priority, but it doesn’t compare to storms nor does it compare to the situations that sent/storm/mag can put you in where your priority does not matter. there have only been a few players, my skill greater or worse than theirs aside, that I have come across that know how to mostly shut down IM

129

its definitely a down side to the team. As a strider player, I’m forced to win off multiple scenarios where msp only has to land 1 hit or any other 1 hit kill team. I’ve trapped players for 11-12 straight rotations and thats a dead character. Depending on the rotations, its probably 150% life free of chip damage out of a possible 300%. ** If strider has the bar and has the ability to constantly retrap, I look @ that as my 1 hit kill.**

I like IM\s\d for the sheer force of it. If I land a hit, its tag city into IM game over. Fuck, strider can even setup an instant overhead during orbs, qcf+lk, mash orbs, tag IM and it combo’s. To my knowledge, its the only team in the game that does 50\50 trap into death.

There is definitely room for strider to upgrade given the current level of the character. He’s also one of a few characters in the game that do 80-100% life to an assist off 1 bar. The setups are kind of tricky to do properly but its just an execution barrier and I’ve actually killed a full helper off 1 bar quite a few times. It doesn’t take much to swing the tempo in favor of the strider player.

and you would think strider needs bar to get to work and he actually doesn’t. I’ll take 20% meter and turn it into 1.3 off an activation. The meter you can build back after 1 orb activation is RETARDED. Its funny sorta, they didn’t let metal wolvie to build bar during his speed up but they allow strider to build bar mid trap.

orbs, s.fp, dog, repeat this pattern x4, teleport onto the opponent, falling j.lk+doom, j.fp, land, s.lp, s.fp, s.rh, teleport behind opponent falling j.lk, j.fp, land s.lp, s.fp, s.rh is all one pattern when you time it right. If you get the whole setup, its like 95% bar ON BLOCK and you built a whole bar while trapping. No big difference in chip damage either when done right and in some cases, its actually more chip damage. So if you do the math, when strider has 5 bars and you repeat this pattern with no gaps, the amount of traps you can do become double digit if perfectly time. You might be able to squeeze 15 activation with 5 bars which is essentially tripling the amount of meter you started off with.

Strider has room to grow, its definitely there.

130

I agree with ShadedWolf on this one. Iron man is a mid to high tier character. Why would you ever replace storm or cable for him? And as an assist character, why would you ever pick him over tron, cyclops, psylock, capcom, etc.

I’m talking about going to major tournaments and high stake money matches and picking him. You’re just begging for an ass raping.

The dude can’t rush that well, or run that well, or fireball fight that well.

And as Shadedwolf already stated, the times he’s most effective is when somebody doesn’t know how to fight him properly ex. Josh vs. Chunk. Chunksta won’t EVER fall for that same shit again.

131

Ironman rules.

132

First post updated to reflect majority’s position.

133

Haha I like your humor (300% off of 1 hit tier).

Mind if we get some games in online sometime I need some experience against good S/D… connection should be aight because I live in NJ and we are both east coast.

134

:rofl: :rofl:

:tup:

135

I believe 2007 Yipes vs Finesse MM first to 5 on Preppy’s site illustrates this point really well and Finesse also has a pretty sick IM.

He got a random tag to infinite, but couldn’t do “300%”.

Last game got several clean hits too, but just couldn’t do “300%”.

136

lol if you are good at 300%-ing and have ironman with either buff assists backing him up (cable, doom, sent, mag even) or in combofiend which is really versatile and he can “piggyback” why wouldn’t you pick him?

if you can A2G 99% perfectly, again, pick him.

actually, he’s a pretty good assist too.

if things don’t go your away initially, he can be at a real disadvantage…buuuut, once you get that hit and you can OHKO from anywhere all your probs go out that window :slight_smile:

buuut, your opponent can also know how to really keep you out/know not to attack you, and it can be a realllll pain. but you still got that 1 hit goin for ya.

I wouldn’t go so far as to say he’s mid tier. but he’s definitely up in the top tiers. and definitely not god tier (which was my point from my original post anyway)

also…yes, I agree and I LOVE illan’s ironman…buuuut…he is NO threat in the air and not as good at 300%ing, you should definitely be more afraid of IMs who can a2g/300% no problem :]

137

Yep, IM is no god tier and neither is Strider, also keep in mind that you must have Doom on your team. People are underestimating them too much though imo.

Sorry bro, but you started a post by linking to an Ironman match and the second Ironman messed up infinite to PC I just ragequit this forum.

Also, I haven’t seen anyone mention the names of the top IM players. So many to mention: Yipes, Mitsu, Jorge, Brandon, etc.

138

Rofl you sure like to argue while agreeing the whole time.

139

Josh?!?

J/K mostly, but yeah, excellent post - I have no idea why people think killakelly is a “Top Iron Man”. I strongly disagree with that, no offense. If you’re going to judge Iron Man, judge by Josh when he’s NOT playing around (there’s a reason he got top three, and it’s not when he was just goofing off against Vercette), Brandon, and Anybody Japanese. Haven’t really seen Yipes’ Iron Man.

Not that any of this matters, and none of this is going to help New Players much. Iron Man is Really Really Good with some amazing upside. 'Nuff said.

140

Tier list.

God

Storm
Sentinel
Magneto
Cable

Top

Strider(With Doom ONLY)
Doom
Iron man
Black Heart
Spiral
Dhalsim
Cyclops

Semi top

Anakaris
Psylocke
Cammy
Juggernaut(with power glitch)
Morrigan
Chun- Li
Omega red
rogue
Mega man(with Sent Ground assist)
War Machine
Ruby Heart(with Doom)
Guile(One of the few characters that can fight sent + he has some of the HIGHEST priority in the game )

high mid

B.B. Hood
Wolverine(Adamantium)
Sonson
Marrow
M.Bison
Spider man
Jill
Charlie
Gambit
Hulk
Dan (put him up here since he can make unblockable situations)
Ken
Venom
Silver samurai
Tron
Iceman

mid

Captain America
Capcom
Wolvie (Bone)
Amingo
Colossus
Ryu
Akuma
Sakura

low

Felicia
Shuma-Gorath
Thanos
Sabretooth
Zangief
Jin
Hayato

lower

Servbot

Trash
Roll