You’d be very wrong. When Danvers got the captain title, I was first in line for it. She had been one of my favorite heroes for ages (even being my main on the Diablo knock off gazillion made).
Problem was, the books weren’t good. After the 3rd reboot or so, I stopped reading. The people who did seem to like them were nowhere to be found. And every person who had something positive to say based it on very general character traits, but nothing about the storylines themselves.
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I haven’t enjoyed reading a Carol back since Brian Reed run on Ms. Marvel. Ever since she got promoted to captain she was stripped of everything that made her a likable character.
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I liked the Reed run of Ms. Marvel and the first run of Captain Marvel after the less then stellar first arc (which was the first attempt to retcon her origin away from her just getting her powers from the original Captain Marvel). They had some fun stuff here and there but as I said it kept bouncing back and forth between events and creative teams, it feels more editorial (probably in part because of her new prominence as the female lead for Marvel comics) then someone coming in with ideas of their own.
I was fine with Danvers until Civil War 2.
Yeah, but I do think 'they’re definitely superhero comics.
DeConnick’s run tried to make Carol Marvel’s “Superman”.
The following volumes with Alpha Flight and then her adventures in other planets tried to make it more sci-fi.
To me, it’s clear they were superhero comics, and they were aimed at people who read comics. It’s not like they were Rowell’s Runaways (which, by the way, I fucking LOVE). It’s simply, they were… lackluster. Meh storylines, weak supporting cast, uninteresting main character.
Ironically, The Life of Captain Marvel, which was the least superhero-y of them all, ended up being an “okay” comic (at least to me; it’s found critical acclaim anywhere else, but I think it was pretty typical cheesy soap opera melodrama for the most part).
Marvel tried to force Captain Carol into a place of importance for the Marvel Universe, before they had a good formula for her comics. Also, is it just me or her first volume kind of overlapped with the Fantastic Four role in the MU? Kind of convenient when Marvel still had veto-ed the F4. Captain Carol is simply… unnecessary for the MU. It’s ok they keep on trying but at this point I don’t think they’ll successfully make her a thing.
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I also liked her more as Ms. Marvel than Captain Marvel. Yes, I do feel Marvel’sl push to put her in a place of importance in their universe was artificial and rushed.
I did like the 2019 run, where she’s in this alternate dimension trapped with SPider-woman, Hazmat, and She-hulk.
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Isn’t that the one where they’re in a partiarchy-leaden universe where women are taken for slaves and the big boss wanted Marvel as his sex slave?
I read one single random issue of that because of weird circumstances.
By that point I had already abandoned the ship. And, yeah, it’s seems weird that I say it, but it looked like they decided to go full-front feminazi for that run/story arc (the alternate universe was named “Machus”, FFS!!). Can’t say I’m surprised.
I never read Carol as Ms. Marvel, by the way. I downloaded that run but I’ve been more interested in other things.
Yes, that’s the arc. Kinda post-apocalyptic setting. Nuclear Man is the enemy, pretty powerful dude.
This is exactly right. And while they were super hero comics, the character of Captain Marvel wasn’t aimed at what comic lovers wanted, I felt. It was like they tried to make her superman without all of the qualities that make superman interesting to comic fans. The people who liked that weren’t buying the books, and the people who didn’t weren’t buying because like you said, it just wasn’t interesting.
I think the closest analog I can come up with would be Roman Reigns in the WWE. Vince kept trying to push him as the “top guy” without building him up for that spot and the fans hated it. They just didn’t know how to establish him properly and give him that role.
I think if they reversed the trend of powering Captain Marvel up, and instead scaled her back a bit, show her as not the most powerful in the universe, but just powerful in her own right, and added the humanity back to her books (not unique to Carol, many Marvel and DC books have lost this depth) then she would be a lot better.
And yes, Runaways was outstanding. The wife and I found it on our honeymoon and kept trading the trades back and forth to re-read.
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I loved Nuclear Man during his stint with the Thunderbolts, a shame no other long term run with the character ever tried to match that balance of him being multifaceted, especially given Marvel and most companies attempts to appeal to China.
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Every time they say “what comic lovers wanted” or “what makes it interesting to comic fans” we get in the same fandom falacy of all time, which is “the fans…”.
I’m sure there’s actual diversity of tastes within the comic books fandom/readership.
I think DeConnick’s run wasn’t a bad idea per se (except for the fact they kind of overlapped with the Fantastic Four kind of adventures, which I personally didn’t like). Using the Superman focus to Carol was something that could have worked.
The true problems were:
- Unremarkable plots
- Non-unique dynamics
- Unengaging and throwaway support characters (I felt like they were ‘pilot’ characters they started to throw to the wall just to see if some of they could stick - and not any of them did).
What do ALL ‘comic fan lovers’ want? Quality.
That’s what the comic books lacked; inspiration, creativity, authenticity.
The focuses weren’t wrong, it was the execution. The comics WERE traditional superhero comics in the formula sense comic book lovers may like; they simply weren’t compelling because of the uninspired writing.
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As for her runs with the Alpha Flight guys, they were BORING AS FUCK.
That’s it.
BORING AS FUCK.
Nothing more to say.
The Nuclear Man on this Captain Marvel run is a different person: Russian, very huge, super strong and can absorb radiation.
But yeah, I remember that Nuclear Man on the Thunberbolts run, it was pretty good!! I think he was in love with Songbird?
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To be fair, this has been a problem with every writer Marvel brings in for Carol. Carol having a stable supporting cast would help her a lot. I hate how new writers always feel the need to wipe the slate clean.
I’m pretty sure that Nuclear Man first appeared on Hudlin’s Black Panther run. Kinda funny how he insisted that Nuclear Man was always Russian when the Chinese original was being used on Thunderbolts.
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There were feels of some sort there if I remember correctly, but Songbird is a popular character to hook to someone. Pretty sure almost every run had her involved or being lusted after by some character(s) either on the team or going against it.
She was in love with Helmut. I think also Genis-vel
I remember her being involved with both, plus Hawkeye from the original run, some other dude and the creepy issue where she was abducted by this fish man doctor I think that was Parker’s run.
