I would like to take you up on your challenge. I have a heavy bias. I’m extremely pro-Priest and anti-Hudlin. Bring it on, bub.
Ever since you’ve changed your avatar I find it incredibly difficult to remember what your posts are about.
Well, I, for one, have no problem with Hudlin’s socially-conscious approach to fiction or his politics or whatever. For all I know he could be a stand-up person of outstanding moral character, a loyal friend and responsible citizen who genuinely seeks the betterment of others and the world around him.
I just hate his comics, and I don’t have any logical reasons or well-reasoned explanations that could justify my hate other than “These stories are just dumb” and “I’d rather not read any Black Panther comics than read these.”
Don’t worry Zeph, my people came up with remedy for that eons ago.
well the 2nd one got alot of people riled up for some reason (nevermind that little device he has). It even led to the point of Dwanye McDuffie explaining why he did and a few dicks wanted to tell him he was wrong.
now now none of these silly opinions that has no weight at all. “OH SHIT A BLACK HERO BEATS A WHITE VILLIAN THAT RACIST!”
are you sure? Cuz I like priest more as well but i’m not blinded by his great writing like the many “priest fans” out there. Honestly the book was actually Everett Ross narrating Black Panther. Yeah I went there and i like priest.
You’re saying that like it was some sort of mistake for Priest to introduce the Ross character, or that the book would have been better if written from T’Challa’s point of view. Ross was a big part of what made his stories work so well.
The thing with Hudlin’s comics is that he displays such a mediocre attention to craft that they read just like any other run-of-the-mill superhero story, only his penchant for unwieldy street jive dialogue draws unnecessary attention to the words coming out of his characters’ word balloons. Like when he started his Black Panther run, it sounded like it would be awesome - taking BP back to the jungle, back to his roots, with JRjr drawing… Only Hudlin gave those tribal warriors some awkwardly memorable dialogue. Then later in the story it felt like he wanted Black Panther to fight an animal-themed opponent. Hmmm… What’s the panther’s natural enemy? The Rhino! I wouldn’t be surprised if Hudlin is the kind of writer who thinks that it would be a cool idea to have Daredevil fight the real devil, or have Moon Knight travel to the moon. Then there was that arc where he had the Panther team-up with a bunch of other black superheroes… to fight vampires? Aryan KKK vampires in post-Katrina New Orleans? Uh. Okay. I remember reading that and having no idea whether Hudlin was trying to be funny or serious. It couldn’t have been both. Eventually I decided it would be easier to just hate his comics than to try to make sense of them. And that’s how Zephyranthes eventually became the man he is today.
Actually I am not. I am just simply stating what the book was under the pen of priest. “hey look at BP kicking ass” “i’m going to write about and report it to my superiors” that is pretty much the book. I’m not knocking but it comes off that way. Was he really “needed” when Lee, Kirby or Mcgregor writing him? Priest created Ross to “add white readers” pure and simple so the book won’t appear “too black”. Because you can’t have too many “black heroes” teaming up because it is racist. Look what happened when he attempted “the crew”.
Honestly I don’t have a problem with that him “fighting the rhino”. The cartoon changed it to Juggy lol. As for Daredevil, didn’t that happen before?
Now we have the “black hero” or “black avengers argument”. I don’t like the arc too much honestly but i’m surprised you didn’t use the “straight trippin boo” line to claim the book was “too African American”.
Yeah, Daredevil did fight a devil before… And it wasn’t a good comic. (And Moon Knight also went to the moon. That wasn’t a good comic, either.)
The idea that having “too many ‘black heroes’ teaming up” is racist is absurd. I don’t know where you got that from.
No, no, maybe you misunderstand me or perhaps I did a poor a poor job of explaining. I wasn’t making any sort of argument that Hudlin’s comic was “too African American.” I wasn’t trying to play the race card at all. (I only mentioned the “black” superheroes and “Aryan KKK” because that’s what was part of the premise of his storyarc.) I was just giving an example of a story he wrote, which had a questionable premise to begin with, and was poorly executed.
Why does every discussion of Hudlin’s comics have to be about race? Why can’t it just be about the fact that he’s a terrible writer?
I am simply coming from the perspective of why Ross was added. I’m not calling it a mistake, I just feel as though he wasn’t needed.
I think a large portion in here and maybe in general don’t like Hudlin too much. I simply tolerated him and he actually started to improve by a large margin in the “relaunch” but he left. Some say it is a good thing. But in a sense it is even worse. However alot of the arguments and complaints about him is regarding “race”. What you brought up regarding the New Orleans arc is one of those “pro-black militia” agenda that many whine about. The straight trippin boo line, BP teaming up with skrull martin luther king and skrull malcolm x (now that was terrible lol). His civil war arc was actually solid. world tour was decent.
Looks like the Skrull Invasion is next on Avengers. Also what’s this? y’all arguing about a black writer? Don’t see too many of those, from what I’m hearing it sounds like the brother is trying to shove his blackness in (WTF a Skrull MLK and Malcom X?).
Did you actually go to the shop last week, or were you just trying to troll Black Panther fans?
Says the guy who knowingly buys bad Batman comics.
Christ, I didn’t know I was going to spark a Black Panther debate, nor did I know we had so many of his fans here. I’ve never heard of David Liss, but I’m a huge fan of Franceso Francavilla. If the story is good, and the rest of Matt’s world is at least partially included, then I’d might read it. Hell, I don’t even like the character. He seems extremely boring. The only reason I’m considering it is because he’s currently been reduced to the vulnerable vigilante role, and Francavilla’s art is absolutely perfect for a title like this. Honestly, I’d much rather read something that I know is consistently good, both art and story-wise, like B.P.R.D. and Hellboy.
Don’t you hate it when a bad comic has good art? I mean, it’s one thing if a good comic has bad art because then at least you have the story. But with the reverse it’s like, “Ooh, look at the pretty pictures–Oh fuck, why am I reading this?!”
If you start a comic talk about an ethnic superhero or writer, it’s bound to devolve into it. Because either someone trolls and say’s “That dude is black, I ain’t buying.” Or some idiot rolls in assuming that if you hate the writing, then you hate the person because they are black.
Hell, I wouldn’t have even known this dude was black unless it was brought up and used as flame bait. Shit gets old internet.
To put it in terms that would work for me, it’d be like an Apache Chief mini-series being brought up and someone saying “I dislike the direction this comic is going, he’s just been sitting there talking about trash for three issues.”
Then I would come in and say “So you hate the comic because he’s Native American and he LOVES DA ENVIROMENTZ?!?!?!”
Then we get 2-3 pages of someone trying to explain they aren’t racist, but that they just hate the particular comic/writer.
I’m not sure what to say about Hudlin that I haven’t already said in this forum at some point. But since this conversation isn’t going away I’ll toss in my two cents.
Seperating race from his work is difficult because of the way he treats things. He injects race in his work even when it conflicts with continuity. He said Latverians have never seen African Americans before - not true - and then he made Doom boderline racist by having him say something like “I always thought that Blacks were better at sports then academics.” Not true also. Not only was Doom in love with Storm for a long time, much later he tells Dracula (who logically would be racist against Muslims) that racism is stupid in MI-13. Thanks Cornell for FIXING Hudlin’s damage. :tup:
Hudlin demonizes long established characters and the universe to get his points across. Why can’t he invent some country where no one has seen African Americans before or some racist villain if he wants to do stuff like this? Arguably I guess no one would care.
Hudlin doesn’t make things better. Some of his famous quotes throughout the years, “Continuity is for white people who can’t handle a powerful black character.” Or “Reading comics in store is only a white person’s privilege.”
Well the first point like are you serious? There’s Blacks, Latinos, Asians, etc. that care way more about continuity then even I, your local CONTINUITY PORNOGRAPHER like Zeph calls me does. 
LOL having lots of pointless information in your head just goes with being male. Maybe your dad doesn’t know crap about comics but chances are he might just be able to tell you a lot about the '86 Mets or insert random sport team here. :looney:
About Blacks not being able to read comics in stores, well, I’ve seen them do it. But hey I live in New York so naturally I can’t speak for the entire country. Big stores are usually cool with that so long as it’s not Wednesday, AKA new comic day. On Saturdays and Sundays I’ve literally seen people camped out in stores reading comics for free.
So that brings up the question. Does Hudlin say or do these things because this is how he feels or does he think that this is what his audience wants to hear so he can make $$$? Season 2 of the Boondocks strongly suggests the later. Me I don’t know the man or anything so I cannot say. All I can say is what I read (and it was just that one issue with racist Doom and Latveria which told me never to read a Hudlin story ever again) I did not like. It wasn’t because of the use of race. It’s because he used race to get his point across and demonized Doom (going against established canon) to get there.
I get it, I’m not African American and hey maybe that’s something they want to see. So long as no one retcons a Marvel Universe entry to say “Doom is a racist” then he can do whatever he wants in his pocket corner of the universe and I’m happy just ignoring whatever he did. If African Americans want a powerful character that can beat Galactus in arm wrestling or whatever else he does in that book then hey more power to you. Everyone reads for different reasons and there’s comics for everybody.
This might sound funny but I’m Latino and I don’t like seeing Latinos in superhero comics. We are ALWAYS misrepresented. I’d rather people just write about what they know. We are not a race of people who love sleeping with Caucasians only or go insane whenever a Caucasian cheats on us (Michelle in ASM BND). I honestly don’t know where this garbage comes from.
So truthfully, if we did have a Latino character in comics that was anywhere NEAR what Black Panther is and represented the way he is I myself may look the other way at Doom shooting Mexicans that cross the boarder or whatever else they want to do. But until then, like Boondocks Season 3 Ruckus would say, “Don’t want no beaners in 616 here!”
BTW Thor War of the Wolves was dope. Mike Carey should get more Thor work. Or just more work in general.
Sano you know the whole time I was reading about how you preferred to not see Latino’s in comics all I could think of was this guy. I think he thoroughly proves your point lol.
You don’t like Wind Dancer or Renee Matoya either Sano?
whoa um yea
Fair enough. I’ll admit what raised an eyebrow for me is when Blade called the vampires “crackers”. I’m dead fucking serious. Maybe if the character was written by Dwanye in the first place from the beginning or kept Aaron around , I don’t think we would have this problem. Yost is doing a super job in A:EMH. Liss is creating a preachy and whining guy trying to “prove himself” with another “evil” country super soldier. I’m surprised there isn’t a super soldier from Iraq or Afghanistan by now. Maberry started good but then made things worse in Doomwar. The first 2 issues were good and then “im going to press this button and make my country like the rest of africa” ROFL
Not familiar enough with Wind Dancer to say.
As for Renee Montoya, well I happen to be Dominican just like her. I still have never run into a Dominican Lesbian that only dates Caucasian women. You know for us coming out of the closet for Dominicans is extremely difficult in the first place (not that it isn’t for anybody, but probably more so for us… Well it’s probably really hard for other races too). I’m not saying that someone like her doesn’t exist because that’s stupid. I’m saying if they do then it’s very rare. So it’s not really a representation of us.
That’s just the comics though. In the cartoon none of this ever came up so having her as a cop was very cool. I don’t think they ever stressed that she was Dominican in the cartoon but it was still nice.
I know that comics involve lots of fantasies and escapism but I think a lot of people in the industry don’t understand jack about us and this comes out in the writing. Mainly what we get are some really twisted Ricky Ricardo interpretations that don’t actually exist. No I’m not saying that we have it worse than any other race in the comics but it’s just at the point where most of the time I’d rather not see us in comics, until I can see ‘us’ in the comics.
BTW there’s nothing wrong with dating outside of your race or marrying outside of it either IMHO. Look if you can find someone who loves you that you don’t want to strangle half of the time LOL life is short man go for it. It’s just that we are ALWAYS in comics depicted as not dating each other, like we can’t wait to jump into a Caucasian’s bed. There’s not even a build up to these things, it’s pretty much “Hey let me jump into your bed,” the end. Most of us date and intermarry within our race. If you went by what was in comics only you’d never be able to tell.
So yeah at least Black Panther and Storm got married and I give props to Hudlin for that. Now I don’t like the way it happened, I mean they weren’t even dating or anything and they made up a fake history to get them there (and there was nothing wrong with Storm and Forge in the first place) but for comics I think it is a step in the right direction. A step taken the wrong way, but I’m cool with the marriage. Just wish I saw more of Storm in X-Men comics still.
I think that was the problem. One rarely seen her in the x-books or one rarely seen the x-men in the BP book. They only appeared in the “marriage” book.
Now has anyone read “heroes for hire”? There is a “twist”. DnA is writing this mind you so I hope they’ll pull it off. But i trust them
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT
I thought you were black!!!
remember SRK is “black until proven otherwise”