That team has too much derp and will lead to too many fraudulent wins for someone new to the game–it will prevent them from developing smart gameplans. A character with a one frame command grab that leads to huge damage who also has a lightning fast teleport and does huge damage with even basic combos once his glasses are off does not sound like a good way to learn fundamentals. I don’t think I even need to say anything about having Vergil anchor in terms of the impact on developing fundamentals.
I’m with Viscant on this one. His idea of starting out with Magneto/Doom/Sentinel is perfect. It encourages teaching someone to think and it will teach you the game. It’s not loaded with derp–which is perfect. No teleport + assist free mixups whenever you please, no normals that can be mashed out like mad to give you a free hit when you’re under pressure/don’t know what to do, and no Dark anchor gimmicks to comeback after someone has outplayed you.
The team has derp but Wesker cannot derp in this game anymore like he use to. Marvel at a high level prevents Wesker to start all his bullshit like he use to unless Wesker plays footsies. Your spacing with him has to be A-1 to win with him, or they need to keep getting hit with dumb stuff.
Wesker doing huge damage? Show me a combo where he kills Thor. Or even himself. I know of one combo that does ALMOST 1 million but that shit isn’t practical at all.
Vergil anchor is derp but everybody plays it and he supports Wesker more than one way. He actually has a purpose outside of derping it up in xf3.
Magneto/Doom/Sentinel can teach you the game but if you say its not loaded with derp, you are wrong. Magneto with drones can get brain dead. You can call assist and play tippy toes with there head.
Anchor Sentinel is actually really good and derpy.
I was about to say for magneto play Magneto/Doom/Sentinel though.
Yeah Wesker was durp back during NEC11. Which even that early on the tier thread (including myself) were already shaky about keeping him as a top tier. Now he’s just a character and if your opponent isn’t flying above the assist for teleport mix ups and doesn’t know to pushblock Wesker’s normals to keep away from command grab setup, then yeah.
The only way to learn to fight the durp really is just to use it yourself and play against people who actually know how to deal with it.
I also think that Dante would be a good ass fundamental learning character if it weren’t for the concept of bold canceling being really strict nowadays. Dante has really good reach with some of his normals, an airdash, decent ground dash, a teleport, good ground control and some really interesting incomings. Dante’s major problem is damage. I think the best I’ve seen from him solo is 650k, might be 700k, which is unacceptable nowadays in this game. But a good team with good DHC’s can solve that problem easily.
So Wesker, Dante and Magneto are IMO the best characters to learn the game with, by rank of who teaches you the best, I’d have to say:
WTH? Is this thread aimed at beginners or for someone trying to win EVO 2013? Everything you said only applies to the game as it is played at an extremely high level.
Wesker can derp like mad at levels that aren’t high–and he does fine even at a high level. But again why in world are we talking about high level Marvel? I thought the title was the Marvel basics thread. Port + assist is brutal at a low level of play and even at a high level it’s great. Wesker is left at frame advantage after a port + assist and he has a 1 frame command grab. That means he’s 100 % safe after any port + beam/projectile assist AND if they press a button after blocking his crouching light will always win out. And if they continue blocking they will get command grabbed. That’s an absurdly favorable scenario for something as braindead as port + assist and will slaughter other beginning players. Completely negating the incentive to learn strategies etc.
Wesker easily does 800-900K for one bar and no assists–that’s great. Add on assists and you can get 1 mill or of course you can just DHC. You’re using the fact that a character can’t kill Thor as a sign that he doesn’t do a lot of damage? That’s an absurd standard for someone at the beginner level.
Doesn’t matter–he encourages awful habits and will lead to a slew of wins just by x factoring and using swords.
Magneto with drones is a joke for a beginner level player. First beam assists maul the drones and the majority of players, even beginners, run one beam assist. Making matters worse, even if the beginner confirms after the drones, it won’t matter because he won’t be doing more than 400K anyway–if he’s lucky–because all of Magneto’s combos that do any damage are some of the hardest bnbs in the game. A beginner isn’t landing the hyper grav loop, will have a hard time with his basic fly combo, and won’t have 3 bars every time they get a hit to gravity squeeze. Using Magneto as a beginner will cause you to get slaughtered; but you will learn a lot.
I actually kind of agree with this. But it isn’t anywhere near the level of Vergil.
If you can pushblock and jump against Wesker, you win. Spacing and whiff punishing is how you win against Wesker.
Wesker does 850k without glasses and 750k with glasses. That is his max optimal BNB off a low. You’d be lucky if you get 900k with 2 assists. Stop it.
What you just said was retarded. Its like saying Sentinel taught you bad habits because he was so good and oppressive. Vergil is a good character and I think that he helps Wesker out in many ways, so stop it.
LOL. Magneto/Drones is a joke? Play Ray Ray and come back to me.
No he’s not, but he’s still fucking derpy and you are lying to yourself if you think that playing Vergil wouldn’t teach you the game.
LOL no that’s a free air throw into another combo which can also lead into a reset
I’m talking about with a DHC–very few characters hit 900K by themselves.
No it’s not “retarded” as you so eloquently put it. A character like Vergil has many “get out of jail free” cards that encourage horrible habits. For example he heavily encourages mashing because his normals have absurd priority and absurd hitboxes. If you are having trouble against an opponent simply mashing H, S oftentimes will not only save you, but will actually give you a happy birthday as well. Same thing with spiral swords, It encourages someone who doesn’t have a strategy or understand proper neutral actions to just activate spiral swords and go in because many characters don’t have an option against that. It’s not about simply being a strong character, Magneto is very strong, but you can’t just mash on his normals when you’re in trouble or activate a super that prevents your opponent from doing anything until it’s expired. You have to block, think, attack when it’s safe, develop a gameplan etc.
OBVIOUSLY if you’re playing against Filipino Champ or Yipes that will not work lol, before you bring up that kind of argument again. I am talking about BEGINNERS.
LOL your reading comp is atrocious–within the first sentence I said BEGINNERS. No shit one of the world’s best players is oppressive with Magneto drones. The point is that this is aimed at BEGINNERS. A beginner is going to get slaughtered playing Magneto point with any assist–it really doesn’t matter.
Honestly, the first part of this sentence is completely incoherent–it’s inconsistent with your first post and my response to it. And if by teach, you mean show someone how to X factor, activate swords, activate devil trigger, and then rapid slash and teleport until they get a hit then yes it will “teach” them the game.
All that being said this isn’t the place for a debate since it’s to help people so I’m just going to leave it at that. Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion about a video game anyway lol.
Well if you ask me…this is Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 and they made the game to be accessible while still being as cheap as possible. This isn’t a game to be telling people what to pick or who to pick to start out with. You don’t tell people to start gangbanging in the hood with something fair like a tall bucket or a knife to work on their gang fundamentals. If the dudes out there are using guns and ducking behind cars, you do the same. If you don’t, you will probably die a lot faster. That’s life, that’s also Marvel.
You’re going to pick some “fundamentals” team to learn the game or whatever the fuck and then fight PR Rog who’s going to go HAM with Wolverine/Doom/Vergil and you’re either going to have to learn how to fundamentally deal with it or just pick up what he’s doing also. Which even a player like him who just goes in with a character who does that well with horizontal assist, he still is going to land hits more consistently than other players and his execution is pretty strong for someone who uses a team like that. If Wolverine/Doom/Vergil is fucking shit up, that’s a fundamental team within the game and you have to learn how to execute it or learn how to fight against it by using it or fighting against it often enough. This is a player who would beat you with any team any ways regardless of how fundamental unless you are on or near his play level.
You don’t tell people to not pick Makoto or Yun in 3S because you can bypass footsie games and grab people up with Mak or sit back and build meter until you win footsie wars with Genei Jin. No…that’s just the way the game fucking works and you either pick a character with strong footsies to work against it or pick another character that just goes in before they get their shit started. Each character is still a fundamental tool within the game and it’s on you to figure out how to use your tools against the other cast.
It really doesn’t matter how durpy or not so fundamental of a character/team a beginner picks up. Eventually they’re going to play against someone who plays a team that has options to deal with obvious teleport+assist setups where the beginner isn’t caring when or why they throw out the assist vs. the opponent. Especially if the other person is playing a character like Magneto who can just fly around and H/S swat the Strider assist or just flat out move around it while staying above beam and drones assists. They will learn to stop mashing helm breakers on incoming and during the neutral when the opponent meaties or chicken blocks and punishes enough times. If you pick a specific type of team you’re just going to run into players who use those “non fundamental” teams any ways. There’s a way to play dirty with every team and there really isn’t much any character in this game that doesn’t have something yolo that you should just do cuz it works.
The game is in fighting against all of it long enough to learn specific options in the neutral for dealing with it before you are the one taking the incoming mix up.
Backwards wavedashing is just simply back, dash, downback. The best thing I can tell you is to go really slow at first then pick it up in speed as you go. I had trouble with it and I had to go extremely slow in order to get it down.
Trust me as an actual lawyer (well in fairness a J.D.) no you don’t–you have so many logical flaws in your arguments it’s not even funny. Basically what your’e saying comes down to “pick whatever is the easiest to win with fastest” and that’s it. You’re also supporting a lot of your arguments with incorrect facts mixed with a lot of strawmen. Although I’m not even sure you know what a strawmen argument is.
What the fuck? That’s not what Im saying at all. Stop talking. Now I know you are bullshitting.
I play this game way too much with people for me to spew out incorrect facts. Wesker to me is perfect to learn movement and “Marvel footsies”. Magneto’s beam is optimal for Wesker. Rapid slash is godlike for Wesker and Vergil is a great character/anchor. That’s why Im saying pick the team, not because its easiest to win with the fastest. If I wanted people new that’s starting off to pick what’s easiest to win with fastest, I would of said pick something like Wolverine/Doom/Vergil and just go balls deep.
I actually do know what a straw man argument is, but I never done that the whole time. I said the team, you said its too derpy because of Vergil, which is false btw, and then I gave my end of the argument, and then you said some bullshit about beginners and then I told you to stop talking. You probably did a straw man argument way more than I did. And you are suppose to be a Lawyer? Fuck outta here.
Anyway, DJ is right pick some bullshit and learn from there. /debate.
I might be answering my own question but I was wondering if the speed you do an basic c. L,M,H,S (or variations of) affects the combo? I’m asking because I’ve been trying to learn Morrigan’s Bnb and have been struggling with the timing. I started doing the opener (s.L, s.M, c.H, s.H) slower and I’ve been getting the
first rep more consistently
In online videos it looks like players are hitting that opener really fast however and they always get it to connect.
And yes it can. I never experienced this on the ground but in the air I have. Cap’s air to ground combo you have to slow it down a bit so you can get close to the ground for the charging star. Is that what you mean?
Yes. When you cancel moves in this game, most will instantly do it or buffer to the first available frame. This means that pushback, juggle height, and etc… can slightly deviate based on when you cancel. Most normals will have a lock out to buffer to the first available so they’re pretty consistent (typically the lock out is to the first active frame). Individual character hurtboxes and the distance at the start can also heavily impact things
Kind of a random question, but what would you guys say is the most important technique for a beginner to master right away in this game? I’ve been using this guide in conjunction with a few other guides out there, and they have really helped out my game for the most part, though there are still some things I haven’t been able to get right (when to attack/stop blocking during opponents attacks, how to correctly utilize assists, how to approach, etc…).