Makoto vs. Akuma

It has come to my attention that Makoto can beat Akuma just by doing a 100% stun combo and then following it up with a jump in hk or hp, hp, ex dash punch. How am I ever to succeed at beating a Makoto player at a tournament with Akuma? That combo is too ridiculous to beat Akuma in just one go. You guys have any thoughts on this?

Don’t get karakusa’d.

Best thing is to zone her out and keep space between you guys since one karakusa + one SAII = death.

don’t be on her side of the screen.

I ve played alot sick makoto players and i’d say 50/50 i’d get caught by flukey kara-kusa.

I try to keep constant rush down on her, not giving the person time to think (plus few hurricanes when i think kara-kusa is going to come out).

Best approach is to use demon flips for pressure, dont use to much because ex-DP from her can give alot stun bar.

Makoto can’t do anything if you avoid the command grab, just try to bait it and punish. This match is not as unfaverable as some people say, she must land that throw to win and there is a lot you can do to prevent it.

In this matchup positioning is key. Before she has meter I’d say pressure her because she can’t really react to Akuma’s pressuring very well. Once she has meter, time to zone her out. She can only get you with the 100% combo if she grabs you from behind the time counter, so make sure you are keeping your distance. You don’t want to get cornered, but one thing to remember is if you are cornered, she can’t get you with her super at all.

Yeah…Akuma may die in one combo but Akuma definitely has a lot of solid options for keeping her out. It’s not like playing Q or Hugo where you pretty much have to sit there and eat whatever she does. Akuma can move and he only needs a few good combos to mess her up just the same.

On arcade version, I spam f + mp on her when she is cornered. Haven’t had problems with them parrying both hits when I do it during a poke chain or if its delayed.

But in general just keep her away. Anti air SA1, though a well timed Tsurugi can help her avoid it - but the mind game here is pretty much in your favour.

If she is more succesful getting hits on you during the hayate mixups, teleport away rather than jump/hurricane/srk.

Spam demon flips with late attacks unless you know they can counter them.

With two bars, play the poke cancel demon game when you know they are looking for parries.

thing is, your opponent WILL pick SA1 after… and it’s even worse. you still have the stun factor(it is makoto afterall), but you’ll have to be careful from cr.MP range(can be hit confirmed), no guarded tatsus, you WILL have to cancel every cl.HP into something or it’s SA1, and can be landed from almost everything(t.MP, stand MP, crouch MK, into qcf lp)… seriously, you can deal with a SA2 mak by staying on your side of the screen because it’s all mindgame and stun but no “real” damage; but a SA1 mak can do some serious damage too… against gouki, i’d say mak SA1 is hella worse than mak SA2. try to learn the matcup against SA1 mak too. if you can manage SA1 mak, you’ll have 0 problems against SA2 mak.

SA1 Makoto is easier, just turtle and play keep away, sparingly you can buffer the lk tatsu in a from just inside her dash range to catch her moving in or to scare her off. Zone with LATE air fireballs, most Makotos know to dash under the AF but a really late one will still hit and has the added bonus of hitting so close to where you land that you can confirm a combo after. If they hit you with a hayate teleport or demon, if they try to ex hayate the recovery of the teleport use the kick teleport as it will miss or you will recover in time.

poking against makoto with a cr.MK is a really bad idea. especially if you want to catch her while she’s dashing. you get baited, she WILL dash when you recover, you’ll get thrown and she’ll be on your face. just what you don’t want. let me explain why SA1 makoto is worse:

it’s the same matchup, but if she can come close, she can dish out heavy damage. SA2 makoto just can’t if you sleep on your side of the screen. and she can punish heavily most of your moves. no more tatsus, no random cl.hp, no when close… just pure hell. there’s a reason why most of the good maks switched SA’s against gouki.

I agree that SA1 Makoto is much harder to deal with than SA2.

For SA2 you just keep her out. On your side of the screen you just have to worry about random supers.

With SA1 she can do simple hit confirms from hayates, etc and makes it much more of a risk to spam hurricanes or any high risk move against her.

I’ve found from experience that if I can beat someone’s SA1 Makoto, they will only win with SA2 by landing a random super and the chances of that happening are small - there is a chance - but its small.

Still i find that it is easy to keep her out due to her major lack of mobility (shes fast but she is limited in where she can go due to her super slow walk speed and dash length) your right about the buffer but if you do it outside of dash distance she can’t punish it with a dash grab but she may try and if so you can counter. You can also buffer a lk tatsu in a low strong which can’t e punished at all on reaction. But aside from those tricks, I feel that Gouki simply needs to space makoto and force her to open up by coming at you and taking to the air. You can also rush down SA1 makoto because the threat for random parry grab is gone. also I’m not sure what people think about this but its a point about my gouki play in genral and I find it especially works in the Makoto matchup and that is to attack with the kara throw mainly. I usually land 4-5 kara throws on Makotos in a round if they use SA1 because they are forced to deal with your keep away and I find many instaces where I can use it and I’m in range.

Just for shits and giggles how often do other gouki players on this forum use the kara-throw in a round? Sometimes, especially on shotos I can get 5-6 and do the bulk of my damage with it, because it is extremely quick with excellent range (better than Ryu’s) and very hard to tech, in fact you can often make your opponant wiff throws randomly with just the threat of kara-throws if you can corner them and land several, this leaves them open to throw coutners on reaction that may have happend out of nowhere. Only matchup where this doesnt work well is Chun cause of the fucking low jab, any thoughts?

In a round? 4-5 times at most. I can’t say I have a consistent amount of times I do it per round, otherwise I’d be playing a bad mixup. Its a good tool, and ups your demon flip mixup game. I need to start working on baiting throw techs and punishing them, because it definitely becomes possible if people are expecting kara throws in your poke strings.

I love using the kara throw to bait tech attempts walk back wiff jab kara throw, walk back wiff jab punish tech attempt, walk back wiff jab SGGK kara throw, ect

PS I find Goukis kara throw to be better than Chun Li’s, not in distance (obviously) but in speed and flexablility, i find gouki can land more karas consistantly than many other characters including chun because it is faster and works from a closer range and can be confusing distance wise when you walk up slightly before using it. Just stating this because I seem to recall Match landing many Kara throws (upwards of 5) consistatly in rounds agaisnt top players

Akuma’s kara throw is top tier, no doubt about it

Good range, easy, much more stricter timing on the tech, and the grunt always tells your opponent that they got kara’d so makes them prepare for it.

I love the grunt.

I don’t think anyones kara throw is any faster than anyone elses though. Still akuma’s kara throw kicks ass

I always use Kara Throw, classic throws in my game are just missed Kara throw…
I know it’s a bad habit, but I never really feel the theorical inconvenience (added startup frames).

Good stuff here guys. And no doubt that Akuma’s kara throw is very useful against Makoto. Kara throw is also very safe for mixing it up when you are afraid of your opponent waking up with something nasty.

some setups on makoto:

if you connect with stand mk super and they land mid screen immediately dash once then rounhouse demon flip, if you cancel the lifp into nothing you will crossup Makoto as she wakes up and can do another stand mk the other way.

If you get her to block a fierce canceled into mk demon flip it will make you land behid her but in a way where it is hard fo her to counter plus if you time the divekick rght it will hit behind her and can confirm into mk tatsu on landing the feirce srk.

If you can combo into lk tatsu finish with stand jab early canceled into roundhouse tatsu for 2 hits, then immediatley roundhouse demon flip on landing, empty cancel the flip and do an immdeiate UOH, depending on which direction the quick rolled you will hit meaty and can confirm into mk tatsu or you will hit from the right distance to confirm into UOH super.