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I don’t know if you guys can see this due to the shitty ass quality of my cellphone but this was pretty lulzworthy.
That is hilarious.
what the hell happened? did akuma’s ultra go right through makoto?
Yes… Yes makoto did. Shoulda been in Desk’s invincible makoto vid.
Lets do some mirror matches! Here’s some I recorded last week. Whooped some ass. Got my ass whooped. Still learning that Rindoukan Karate!
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(i did this from my iPhone, so let me know if the links don’t work… I’ll check them when I get home)
Hold no punches. If my mak sucks tell me lol. BUT tell me what sucks and why. What to improve on (other than execution). I know i need to keep practicing. I know i need to stop relying on focus so much. Tell me something i don’t already know…
Please:)
Let me know what you guys think!
OH and if anyone wants do do some mirror matches hit me up on XBL (the mossad man) and lets get some ggs in!
Just watched the first video, I’ll give the others a look in a bit.
You’re giving up an awful lot of ground and putting yourself at (albeit long distance) frame disadvantage by backdashing so much. Makoto’s backdash is good, but it should still be used as an occasional defense.
Be very careful throwing out hayates that are bound to be blocked. They’re all grossly negative, but it does happen fairly quick, so it can be difficult for the opponent to find that punishable window if it’s a rare occurrence. Use this to your advantage (again, don’t let backdashing be your only response) by throwing out an EX chop or focus cancel to catch an attempted punish. (use discretion if they’ve got a 3 frame reversal, FADC backdash to bait). Otherwise, if you’re not sure the hayate will connect and you don’t want to risk the punish, just hayate cancel and continue your mixup. s.mp xx HC moves you forward, so back in good position, and s.fp xx HC is either positive or neutral on block so it’s usually a safe gamble to just throw it out and see what happens.
On that, if you focus cancel a hayate that connects, NEVER let the lvl. 1 focus go through before dashing forward. You actually lose frame advantage as opposed to just FADC’ing the hayate, which can actually lead to a decent mixup.
Use her kara throw at close range! Making them afraid of that will usually force them to start crouch tech OS’ing, and Makoto has some really good ways to punish that.
Gotta learn to block on wakeup.
I am a complete noob, but here are my vids of her. I have found that when I usually mix up a few things and be more agressive, I end doing a lot better with her. Not winning, but not completely schooled by the other player:
Past 30 or so matches should be of her.
I’m also sorry for any rage in the vids…I get angry pretty easily and I always play worse as a result 
Kind of hard to judge these as I think I’ve only ever had one Makoto mirror match and don’t know the match up, but I’ll do my best.
Not sure I agree with Boom Cube regarding the back dash, used correctly it is one of Makoto’s greatest assets, though you may be overusing it a little your reactions seem sound. I do notice, however, that your anti air game seems a little off. Makoto has lots of anti air options and I can’t recall you ever using them. Also, while it isn’t always the best option and the timing distancing is strict, I didn’t see you use a single fukiage. There were quite a few instances in these matches where you could have dashed under the tsurugi and used fukiage to send him skyward, you can follow this up with a jump cancel tsurugi combo of your own as long as you use the lk/mk version to lead into a hayate.
As I don’t reside in your noggin it is also hard to tell whether it is intentional or not, but your distancing seems a little off. Learn the distances of the different versions of her hayate, fukiage and other moves. Get them wrong and you leave yourself open horridly. You may have been baiting though in which case I apologise.
Your defence seems strong though which is good, too many Mak’s think they have to stay on the offensive constantly. While her offence is awesome you can’t rely on it, but you seem to know this.
Oh, and you’re not using Ultra 2, silly boy…
Joking aside, as my preference is for her second Ultra which no-one else seems to appreciate, your play style seems to incorporate a lot of super bar usage. Nothing against this at all, I do myself and Makoto’s moveset is much better for it especially when countering and linking. However, I find that her Ultra 1 is best used along side her Super, if you can refrain from using the EX version of moves as much then this is perfectly viable, if not I recommend that you practice using her second Ultra. You may not agree with me, our playstyles are different after all, but I’m curious if it would help.
Just remember though that you need to learn the timing and distancing of her ultra 2 for it to be truly effective, it beats a lot more than people give it credit for. It’s not just for punishing fireballs.
Finally don’t be scared of using her karakusa. It may have the most stupid hitbox in the game but it can be brutal if you learn to combo after it, something I can’t think I ever saw you do. The timing is strict but if you use HP with negative edge to Hayate just as she lets go of their collar you inflict some serious damage and stun. There are other interesting variations, but they tend to be character specific. Don’t waste the opportunity when you have it.
That’s about it, keep it up and I look forward to seeing more. Hopefully we’ll meet on-line at some point.
NB: Feel free to ignore all of this, I don’t claim to be an authority and you seem to be doing just fine as you are.
@ Boom Cube-first of all, I appreciate the input. Concerning the back dashing… I do it a lot against makoto, yeah. That’s because i fear Karakusa lol. I use it agianst other characters, but usually i see makoto as using the opponents fear of losing 30-50% of their life as my defense. Its amazing what makoto can do to turtles…
Her backdash is the center of my defensive game… lack of stationary defensive options force me to remain mobile. Maybe that’s something for a new thread lol. ALMOST EVERYTHING on SRK about Makoto concerns offense. We focus so much on offense. Other than back dashing and staying moble, what are we going to do? EX oroshi? EX Karakusa? trade with something? All undependable. For instance, has ANYONE FOUND A WAY TO BEAT DUDLEY’S JUMP IN ELBOW? lol. I’ve tried everything. only thing that works is backdashing as far as I know. ST mp and ST mk work on most jump in’s, but once someone gets on you, if you’re not in the corner i see backdash as the only option. Makoto doesn’t seem to be able to “muscle” her way out of pressure from characters like guile and rufus. Backdash, reset, get in (on your terms), and apply pressure liberally. That’s the game plan. At least until someone mashes srk or spd during… lol
That being said, you are absolutely right about the FADCs. I almost always let the lvl 1 go, and I know I shouldn’t (unless its at the end of a match). There are moves with better frame advantage that come out just as quickly. Hayate to FADC to c. lp st. lp, st. mp maintains pressure very well. many times i get the c. lp as counter hit which is just awesome. They get used to block strings and blocking too much, they end up eating karakusa=> destroy. I just have to watch it. There’s a big difference between practicing and doing it for real. I’m still having a difficult time with transitioning my practice game to real matches.
you know, i JUST learned her kara throw lol. Before, I was using a macro for throws <dodges rocks>. But i’ve turned it off and am trying to work it into my muscle memory. as a result, I run across kara throw opportunities pretty often now. I had no idea the motion was so simple. Good advice.
Blocking… lol… yes i’m one of them who block 30%, try to counter 70%. I end up losing a lot of matches because of bad blocking. In fact, personally, I think that most matches are lost due to bad blocking. I always say, “its not because they’re better, its because i made a mistake.” many times this is really the case. Yup yup… need to learn better blocking. Not just on wakeup…
@Angelflesh-I’d like to see this mysterious “different” makoto you keep talking about lol. And thanks for your advice as well.
Concerning Ultra 2… Actually, i use ultra 2 3 out of 4 matches lol. I know how to use it very well. It does just about the same damage as U1 (more than U1 without super) because its hardly ever scaled down. hit from anywhere, punish whiffed anythings, punish fireballs, punish jumping, punish vortex, corner crossups, escape from corner (if necessary), punish a mash happy opponent post hayate… the list goes on. Getting all 5 hits after a (non-cutscene) U2 in the corner is just… so degrading lol. But love U2. I definatly should’ve used it in those matches. I actually (think I) win more with U2. However, I depend on it a little too much on wakup. That and the fact that using U1 forces me to focus on strenthening my karakusa game are the only downfalls of U2 from my POV.
Oh karakusa… the love hate relationship… I spend WAY too much time trying to set it up. Gotta train them to expect and respect those normals! Its not as reliable as, say, st. mp, but then what is. I do worry a lot about distances. I do best when i’m right in their face, you know? I know how to use it, but in these most recent vids, i know these guys use a lot of karakusa evading themselves. So I resort to pursuing with normals. Love landing karakusa. Really love karakara.
I know how to use them so I’ll show a little more competence next time.
I use fukiage a lot too. Again, just not with makoto. Kneegrowp1z REALLY fears fukiage (like me) so we try not to jump too much on each other. TheAsianTechGuy jumps a lot. Usually twice. I just need to have the presence of mind to defend myself with fukiage against him. I use it a lot on certain characters (rufus, guy, bison, vega, seth, and shoto’s crossups), and i’ll try to illustrate it more and put the opponent in situations where they can get raped by fukiage x2, ex tsurugi.
But yeah, I’ll post non-mirror matches so you can see some other things. Its fighting makoto with makoto. I know all of her stuff. I know what to fear. I know what to exploit. When I lose, I know why. Its simple. I’ll get some other vids together, and we can talk about how well i do, positive or negative.
Thanks for the comments guys! Really appreciate it.
Angel I’m going to hit you up on XBL if you don’t mind.
So I don’t know about everyone else but i will dash across after (almost) every air to air HP. lk kara and st mp work wonders here. It works well because usually makoto isn’t on the screen lol. You can’t see her until its just about too late.
READ: never focus and dashback an opponent with a rush /super ultra on opponent wakeup. Yes, they could hit you while you’re in your airborn state for a wasted ultra. But chances are, you’re going to lose 50% of your life for nothing. There are better options on opponent wakeup. f hk (hold) and follow up, meaty (insert normal), meaty oroshi, safe jump, etc. Backdashing relieves the opponent of the applied pressure, and gives them time to think–2 things you do not want. You want to make them mindless button mashers that seem to get punished for every move they make.
You sure jump a lot lol. Makoto shouln’t be using that high, long, floaty jump very much. Everything she does well is on the ground. You can cover ground faster, karakusa, ultra, sweep, mix up, etc etc etc. Only jump occasionally, and usually for punishment. She’s a grappler. Think of it like Zangief jumping. Usually not a good idea…
One exception is to IA tsurugi. THAT is a move that you should abuse. HK tsurugi absolutely stuffs so much. Lk and MK tsurugi deal so much hit and block stun that you can maintain pressure. they punish throws, mashing, and most back dashing. works great on opponent wakeup. Occasionally jump straight up and halfway down do tsurugi. Sweetness…
The main thing I saw in most of the matches is that you tend to give up pressure a lot. after a knockdown you should be on top of them. do not let up. only time you should back dash or stand there is when you’re baiting. Other than that, you should be using meaty normals and karakusa. Don’t be afraid to dash forward. Get at them!
Finally, You need to work on your block strings and combos. You generally used all single hits. Those don’t bring enough pressure. People aren’t scared of getting hit once… I’m sure these other guys can help you more than I can… That’s what I noticed
Mossad: Didn’t realise I was preaching to the choir regarding Ultra 2, it’s rare to see someone else who shares my thoughts on this. In fact in general I wasn’t sure if what I was saying was relevant as I don’t know the matchup at all. Just because I have a decent understanding of her abilities doesn’t mean I instinctively know how to react against them. Still maybe some of what I wrote will be of use to someone. Looking forward to seeing more videos, always nice to watch fellow Makoto players, and I look forward to seeing you online, though the time difference may pose a slight issue at times.
Kether: Only looked at a handful of the videos but I noticed a common theme. While I am a big believer in a balanced offensive/defensive game with Makoto she doesn’t suit the down back turtling that you seem to exhibit in every video I saw (though with practise and experience I am sure you will work through this). Makoto has to remain reactive at all times, you have to keep the opponent on their toes, this also mean that when you do attack then you have to maintain pressure. While her damage output is high her stun damage is almost equally as high. Keep on them, keep them guessing, make them fear you. If she gets hold of a stunned opponent they are just meat waiting to be tenderised. Also there is nothing funnier than hearing a T. Hawk/Gief player scream down their mike as you stun them… they don’t see it very often.
A lot of this will come with confidence as you keep playing, but if you let your opponent call the shots when you play as Makoto then you will probably lose. Keep with it, always nice to have more Mak players.
Rindo-kan a gogo baby.
Thanks Mossad and Angel. Main thing about me leaving off the pressure is that IF I keep it up, I usually get creamed, lol. Yeah, I know I jump a lot. I do that with every character
Also…what does meaty mean?
meaty is a term for a move that will hit or make them block on wakeup…they have no reversal options…you probably saw it with mak with knockdown dash and mp oroshi
ST. mp is probably the easiest meaty hit. It should be used after a reset or on opponent wakeup. Frame data is as follows:
Startup: 4~5 frames
Active: 7 Frames
Recovery: 7 Frames
Frame advantage (block): 2 frames (or +2)
Frame advantage (hit): 5 frames (or +5)
EXPLAINATION (skip if you already know this)
If you whiff a st mp, it takes 5 frames for the move to come out; it is out for 7 frames, and you recover in 7 frames. That’s a total of 19 frames for the move. The opponent can hit or trade with you anytime during these 19 frames.
If the opponent blocks your st mp, it takes 5 frames for the move to come out, it is out for 7 frames, you recover in 7 frames, and they are in block stun for 2 frames. That’s a total of 21 frames. However the opponent can only hit or trade during the 5 frame startup. Since they block, they recover in 9 (7+2) frames. You cannot be punished because you recover too quickly. In fact, if you just frame another st mp, its VERY difficult for them to reversal, even with a shoryu… That’s why we abuse it so much, even on block lol. Its perfect for counter hits…
If the opponent is hit by your st mp, it takes 5 frames for the move to come out, it is out for 7 frames, you recover in 7 frames, and they are in hit stun for 5 frames. That’s a total of 25 (!) frames. This, if used correctly, is impossible to punish. You can link a st mp into itself or a light attack and continue to combo on hit. The reason this is possible is because since you recover in 7 frames, and they are in hit stun for 12 (7+5) frames, there is plenty of time (5 frames) to do another move. The startup of her light moves are 4 frames, and st mp is, of course 5 frames.
EXPLAINATION OVER
The point of meaty attacks is that you can shave off your recovery time by hitting the opponent late in the active frames of your attack. So on wakeup if you whiff the beginning of st mp, and the opponent stands and is hit while you mp is active, they recover like normal… 12 frames. you on the othe rhand hit them in, say, active frame 6. You will now have 6 frames (as opposed to 4 or 5) to attack. You can link any 6 frame move to a meaty st mp. This greatly increases the combo and damage potential. For instance you can do:
c hp, dash, st mp (meaty), st hp, EX oroshi.
This is possible because st hp has a 6 frame start up. you can also do:
c hp, dash, st mp (meaty), ultra 1
6 hit combo into U1. U1 also has a 6 frame start up.
She has many different types of meaty hits. Here’s a couple to get you started:
c hp, dash, short delay, mp oroshi (meaty), st mp, ex oroshi
CORNER-st hp, HP Hayate, f lk (reset), st mp (meaty), st mp, EX Hayate
CORNER-fukiage, f lk (reset) st hk (meaty), st mp, ex hayate
The list goes on. Meaty hits are paramount to winning with Makoto.
Yup. Meaties appear to be a bit of a game changer, once you’ve trained your opponent to fear other options.
And now, I nitpick!
- SRK on reversal is easier than it seems. The SF4 series reversal window isn’t actually as big as people think. But negative edge and double-tapping can make reversaling between 2 s.mps a relatively simple task.
- U1 is 7 frame startup.
(Nitpick man, away!)
<<<<(praticing virtual digital parrying while playing “eye of the tiger”)
@ nitpick 1- sounds like mashing (gasp!) to me… lol yeah you can srk your way out of a lot of stuff mak does or mash and it doesn’t even have to be srk… but if someone is mashing srk or anything else, they are going to have issues after 1 or 2 tries and Mak blocks… Remember we live to read our opponent.
@ nitpick 2- I was going off of the eventhubs list. They say U1 startup is 1+5 (i didn’t personally measure it lol) Either way, I know for a fact that you can combo U1 from meaty st mp. Hell you can combo U1 from a CH st mp… I would think that it makes sense that U1 is 6 frames… Where did you get the 7 frame data?
Har, no. You’re right. I must have misread the frame data.
It’s not necessarily mashing. But yeah. Just because you can doesn’t mean that it’s a good idea.
The s.MP meaties referenced above, I think you meant c.HP -> dash -> dash -> st.MP rather than just one single dash 
you should go somewhere else, a few things on their site is wrong
@ farplaner- nope. Only 1 dash… Dashing twice can=eat shoryu. 1 dash is adequate, even from max distance although you do need a short delay. There are other ways, these were just a couple… From my experience at least.
@Zuranthus- very true… But really good frame data is hard to find. If you have any suggestions, please share