ok, lets get to it: http://www.capcom-unity.com/street_fighter/go/thread/view/7411/29822769/makoto-balance-suggestions
-adjust reel animation for axe kick hitting crouching characters (gen, chunli, balrog …)
-1000 health
-j.mk slightly more reliable
thats it for buffs, but i’m just hoping capcom doesn’t take the ‘pick options from a hat’ approach
edit: well i guess it’s a little odd that we can kara a punch into diag. jump tsurugi, because either they want to let us use it or not. take it out or remove the kara? i’m not sure how that would play out mechanically.
- J.mk more reliable
- Walk a little bit faster
- Lower/No height limitation for the tsurugi
- Ability to do tsurugi with a back jump
- c.LK, c.LK can now combo
Looking at what most of the people on the Capcom forums are writing about, I feel like they don’t have an understanding of why she’s unique in her risk-reward. A lot of their proposed changes would completely change her style (I do not mean to imply for the better or worse). The main question will be what the Capcom folks think; does she need to keep the same metagame or become a different character?
Bahaha, i’m all gitty after realizing this is actually happening. I really hope they give her the few buffs she needs. A little something extra without changing the rest of her game would be nice too.
A lot of people on capcom unity are saying jump back tsurugi…what the hell would this even do? I don’t see this ever hitting. Forward jump attempts I guess?
2147k would make instant tsurugi, if they remove the height limit. It also gives a backward short jump.
Most of the suggestions aren’t really explaining their reasoning on Capcom Unity (no surprise) also someone suggested that Karakusa be throw invincible… yeah because armor on EX Karakusa isn’t good enough lol.
Anyways this is what I posted on the unity forums for Makoto:
Give her a more consistent crossup on her forward jump medium kick. Due to her slow walk speed it is difficult for her to properly space herself to consistently land a MK as a crossup and her axe kick requires special setups to crossup on specific characters. This makes it difficult to mix people up off of a jump after a knockdown
Return her health to 1000. Makoto in 3S had more health than Ryu or Chun, she has always been a “tough” character. As she has to take a lot of risks to get into her proper position due to slow walk speed and lack of projectile/strike invincible moves that move her forward she takes a lot of stray hits and chip damage. 1000 health allows her a little bit more time to work her way in.
Hayate charges are still not useful. The move takes too long to charge to a reasonable level and even at level 5 you are unable to followup the hayate with a fukiage on hit. Reduce the damage/stun bonus amount but make her charge time shorter. Alternately, allow her to “store” her charge amount so she can choose to begin charging a hayate after a knockdown instead of going for a mixup. This will allow Makoto to play a “long game” similar to how Sagat does with Angry Scar.
Reduce the pushback on her forward throw and increase the stun from 200 to 230. It is the ONLY throw in the game that does not lead to a hard knockdown. Given how important hard knockdowns are for Makoto that is a big deal, likewise thanks to her slow walk speed and the amount of pushback on hit she is unable to take any sort of advantage of the rather small amount of frame advantage she gains on hit.
Give her crouching HK the ability to air reset opponents after a Fukiage the move currently has very little practical applications.
Make EX Fukiage (bot not regular) require a STRICT input timing. I’ve seen even top players like Haitani and Shiro do Karakusa - EX Fukiage and lose the match because they were trying to get Ultra 1.
^^ I agree with everything u posted except the ex fuki change, I haven’t got ex fuki when I meant to do U1 after karakusa since my 2nd week using makoto. You simply use ssf4s input leniency and do qcf qcf early, hold forward and hit ppp x3. It’s really easy to do once u get the timing down, 3 minutes in training mode and never get ex fuki again
@holbroal I know how to avoid it, but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t come out sometimes in the heat of the moment. As I said in my post, I’ve seen Haitani and Shiro have it happen, arguably 2 of the best Makotos in the world. It’s not common sure, but it shouldn’t occur nearly as easily as it does. That said, why NOT fix it? It’s not like you are going to use EX Fukiage for the Fukakusa OS
Guys I think we are overlooking the most important potential change. We could potentially get our long desired bandage shirt buff.
I just don’t know how they can fix that, the ex fuki input is a shorter version of the U1 input, you can’t do the U1 input without doing the ex fuki input, so making it stricter doesn’t make sense. Justin Wong can’t hit Rufus U1 after ex messiah kick for some reason but that’s his problem, it doesn’t mean they should Change the game just for him, and how do u change the input to make it not happen in the first place? Just don’t hit PPP too early
I explained how, strict input settings.
Fukiage looks like this
Forward 8F buffer window (this means the game remembers this input for 8F before forgetting you did it.) input allowed “Lenient” (this means that the game will accept forward, down forward, or up forward as acceptable inputs)
Down 8F buffer window - lenient
Forward 12F buffer window - lenient
Ultra 1 (and 2 but with kicks) uses this:
Down 12F buffer - Strict (Lazy Stick allowed, effectively negates the “strict” input flag)
Forward 12F buffer - lenient
down 12F buffer - strict (Lazy Stick allowed, effectively negates the “strict” input flag)
forward 16F buffer - strict
All they need to do is change the input settings for the EX version to use Strict settings on the Fukiage and reduce the forward buffer window from 12 to 10F Bam. Fixed.
The thing is that because Fukiage is higher on the move list it has priority over Ultra 1 (which is good, that is how it should be) but because of the lenient inputs allowed, and the 12F vs 16F buffer there is only a 4F window for a proper input to be read.
The players on Capcom-unity like to start off with “I played Makoto since SSFIV” then proceed to make stupid suggestions. Armour breaker on HK Tsurugi? Give Hayate armour? Throw invincible Karakusa?
I’d rather they just leave Makoto alone than give her buffs some of these people suggest.
However from what I’ve seen the most common ones are 1000 health, better cross up and Hayate safer on block and I think there was one other thing that comes up really often.
I’ve been campaigning over on Unity for the j.mk buff as hard as I can. I go by the name Genis Sage over there if you’ve seen any of those posts.
I’m all for that too. Honestly if I could only pick two buffs it’d be crossup j.MK and 1000 health. And if I could only pick one it’d be a 3F DP… I mean crossup j.MK
Anyways, someone on the Makoto forum mentioned that Cody has multiple versions of EX Ruffian Kick depending on button presses as a reasoning behind giving Makoto a buff. As a person who mains Cody and Alts Makoto I couldn’t help but be irritated by that level of stupidity. If you are going to give reasonings behind something or compare it to something DO SOME homework. This isn’t like “O i had one property off, I didn’t realize that this version of this move was airborne at this frame” that is somewhat excusable. But claiming a character has moves that don’t even exist? lol.
Also, one buff I think Makoto should get that you might want to lobby for: Make HK/EX axe kick an actual hard knockdown. Contrary to popular belief it is a TECHABLE knockdown (go to training mode set quick rise to always and you’ll see.)
Personally I wouldn’t mind if Makoto’s LK Axe kick had a higher placed hitbox (like where the hitbox is on Adon’s air jaguar kick) that way she’d be able to use it more consistently as an air 2 air. MK As air to ground, HK for hard knockdown, EX for armor break/juggles/IAoverhead. It’d make the LK version a BIT more useful. don’t increase the hitbox just move it up so that it hits closer to her mid section , makes it worse for air 2 ground and makes crossups nearly impossible but lets her far more consistently air 2 air with it.
Of course I only ALT Makoto I dunno how negatively that would affect her.
After taking some time to think about I’d like to see Makoto relatively unchanged aside from 2 things:
The j.mk hitbox adjustment that has been heavily championed (for obvious reasons)
and
Make cr.lk able to be chained into s.lp, reason being is that our low pressure is basically non-existant and what we can do now is unsafe cr.lk xx lp or ex hayate or raw sweep.
Wouldn’t that make c.LK - s.LP - s.MP - s.MP possible? seems kind of a big buff all things considered. Not disagreeing that makotos’ low game isn’t pretty ass but since she has instant overhead bj.HP, has EX Oroshi overhead, and a command throw with karakusa wouldn’t giving her a crossup AND a hit confirmable low that leads to 250-350+ damage kind of be OP?
Hell, I don’t even think Cody should be able to chain or link out of his c.LK and he doesn’t have half the tools to open a person up that Makoto does. Granted his is slightly longer and 3F but he also doesn’t get quite the damage Makoto does for 2 bars and he doesn’t have stuff like Makoto’s s.MP/MK for a far reaching standing normal that can be special canceled
Rational buffs I’d consider perfectly justified:
- Better j.mk crossup hitbox
- 1000 health
- Better range on EX Karakusa (it’s not bad, but every now and then it seems to not grab because of some weird animations, from almost point blank attacks it absorbs)
- Karakusa techs throws (not throw invisible)
- Ex Hayate looses armor break ability
Big buffs I’d consider maybe a bit too much but I’d welcome them nonetheless:
- Adjusting reel animation on crouchers getting hit by MK/LK Tsurugi or lowering Tsurugi height restriction a bit
- Ability to combo off cr.LK into cr.LK and st.LP
- Forward throw does 250 stun, gives +2 frame advantage and leaves opponent closer.
Going nutts - completely game changing:
- Ability to cancel her forward dash at 12th frame with attacks / throws / specials
- Ability do FADC some of her comand normals like f.HK or f.HP
- Forward throw becomes reversed back throw
- Minimal pushback on all normal Hayates, so LK Karakusa grabs everyone afterwards, even when they start going back and when you screw up you get big time punish.
- All normal Hayates gets +2 on hit, -10 on block
- Ex Oroshi can combo off cr.LK and st.LK
- Faster Hayates charging
- Charged Hayate gains full Ex Hayate properties
- Super gives +25% damage and stun buff, all normals do small chip damage, specials deal twice the chip damage, Makoto can use EX moves during super: super lasts 10 seconds, every ex takes 3 seconds off the timer.
- U2 can combo after st.HP like in 3S (some kind of special cancel avalible only for U2 after only st.HP) - gets only non cinematic animation.
- Same combo opportunities after close and medium non cinematic U2 as after far U2 non cinematic.
- Remove ability to continue with Fukiage after Ex / Charged Hayate in the corner: this shit would be too much with such changes.
Yeah… going nuts as damn. Don’t want that, it’d change soooooo much. Still it could be hella lot of fun.
I don’t think a chainable cr.lk would be too overpowered, our oroshi overheads are easily reacted to as they are painfully slow.
What a chainable cr.lk will allow us to do is maintain pressure by virtue of forcing the opponent to crouch block as opposed to holding back and just walking out of anything we try to do (I’m looking at you Akuma)
Regular Oroshi is certainly reactable but EX is a lot harder since it’s 18F AND can be canceled into which makes it a bit tougher since most people aren’t expecting it as much then.
I do agree too many people can walk out of her pressure. One pretty gimmicky trick you can do is a hayate charge - cancel if they start walking back. Hayate charge has a “proximity block” hitbox that makes it so that if they are holding back they will block. Thus Hayate charge - cancel - c.LK would mess with their ability to walk out. It’s def a gimmick though.