Random SRK PTSD scares me off trying that gimmick…
I did say it was a GIMMICK XD
Shit is def not something you go for more than once every 30 matches against the same person (preferably with a 3month gap between each attempt too lol)
Guys I am fighting as hard as I can over on Unity to stem the tide of retardation. If anyone would care to help me out I would appreciate it…
I’ve posted a couple of times, and as I said I advocated for better crossup j.MK which we all agree is the main thing she needs. Frankly, I think that nerfing the top tiers and vortex game a bit is going to push makoto into the front again. However simply due to the awkward nature of her playstyle she’ll never be a POPULAR character like Ibuki or Akuma or Ryu.
Yeah as long as she gets that better j.mk an maybe something to help her out against throws on wakeup she’s gonna be a monster because let’s face it; in all likelihood the top tiers (sans perhaps Akuma because lol Akuma) are gonna get the nerf bat pretty hard I get the feeling.
That said, I don’t think even if they buff her I’ll end up making her my main again like it was in AE. I love her to pieces but I’m lazy, 27, and don’t have the energy to memorize 3billion character specific setups. That is why I like Cody, he is a character you kind of HAVE to play by feel because he doesn’t really have any safe setups due to the nature of his move set lol.
I love the dichotomy and similarity between the two characters. Makoto plays totally different from ANYONE. Cody’s entire gameplan revolves mostly around techniques that can be done by EVERYONE. (Go watch top Codys, and see how much of his success is based solely around ‘empty jump - throw’ ‘empty jump - c.LK’ ‘jumping light - throw’ ‘c.LP during footsies to stuff dash type moves.’ ‘c.LP tic throw’ ‘obvious yet not anti aired heavy jump attack’ )
Granted he has good stuff to utilize those things (a decent throw range, a 3F c.LK, a + on block LP with good reach, a long active though very slow heavy jump in) it’s all stuff you could get similar success doing with Ryu or Ken or Fei or just about anyone lol.
On topic, I’m really surprised at the stupidity of some of the Makoto requests. I mean I’m not surprised at stupidity in general but it’s pretty funny to go through the CU forums for each character and see the overall differences in attitude. Bison’s thread for example is actually pretty decent for the most part compared to say… the absolute retardation of the Ken thread.
Combo fiend used to play Makoto a lot, and I think he loves the character too. If he has any input in the development I think Makoto will stay relatively strong, if not become improved even more! Only thing I’d like to see is the j.mk cross up hitbox improved. Other than that, everything else is just fine.
I see a lot of posts calling for EX Hayate to lose armour break and I can’t understand why. Wouldn’t that make it the only EX move in the game to not break armour (whether that be on hit, or with multiple hits)? Only other ones I can think of are Rekka style moves and Condor Spire. But fuck T Hawk. Makoto is pretty free to focus, so I think EX Hayate threat keeps people honest.
@chewmandinga There are a quite a few.
Honda EX Butt Drop (It is technically 2 hits, but there is 14F between the two hits, easy to dash out.)
Gouken’s EX Fireball (it CAN break armor but you have to be very close.)
Oni’s demon slashes
Chun Li’s EX Hazanshu
Viper’s EX Seismo
Cammy’s EX Cannon Strike
Bison’s EX Head Stomp
Blanka’s EX Up Ball and EX Rainbow Ball
Balrog EX Dash Upper and EX Dash Straight
Rose’s EX Soul Reflect
That’s something to consider for sure. Combofiend having played Makoto for a bit might get us a bit more of a fair shake all things considered.
Maybe we should gather what we think to make an “official” post. There are so many posts where people want hayate to become safer : that’s really disappointing. Do they also want that any SRK become safe ? I didnt play Makoto in super and i really dont care about her going back to 1K HP.
- j.MK improvement
- c.LK combos into c.LK. I think that if c.LK comboed into s.LP, it would be too strong.
- Easier combos after a canceled hayate.
Would it be broken if
Makoto had 1000 health
-L hayate= -8 on block to -4 on block?
-M Hayate= -7 on block to -5 on block?
-H Hayate=-6 on block to -3 on block?
F.Hp target combo caused a soft knockdown or hard knockdown
Forward throw has less pushback and more advantage for makoto
J.mk back from AE
http://www.capcom-unity.com/street_fighter/go/thread/view/7411/29822769/makoto-balance-suggestions?post_num=339#530227195
I disagree with the ex-karakusa being throw invulnerable. People would only have the jump option left, and that’s not fair.
Ex Hayate should not be armor : it already goes through a full screen if you kara LK, it pushes back the opponent another half screen, and you get a okizeme. It would be really OP. Everything else makes a lot of sense.
Better cross up hitbox on j.mk:
I have no idea why this is so bad. It’s especially noticeable on Guile, this thing will just flat refuse to cross people up at times. Make this move cross up opponents more consistently please.
Give Makoto a throw invincible wakeup option
Either EX Karakusa or EX Oroshi will do. As it stands now her only throw invulnerable option on Wakeup is to mash on a wakeup Ultra/Super, and obviously those options aren’t always available (or advisable). One interesting caveat (and I’m not sure if this is possible in SF4’s engine) but if EX Karakusa being completely throw invulnerable is too good, then perhaps Karakusa can be tweaked to TECH grabs like it would in 3S instead of being a straight win/lose situation.
Decrease startup for Fukiage by one frame
This one might be more wishful thinking than a reasonable request but it would make antiairing with Fukiage a bit less of a guessing game on the range/startup of each version.
Less pushback on Hayate:
Right now combos ending in Hayate don’t really give her enough positioning advantage to continue pressure like her character design is built around. A bit less pushback on this move would help tremendously.
1000 health would be nice but in terms of practicality it’s not nearly as important as some serious hitbox/frame data adjustments. Nothing too ridiculous here in my opinion.
These are the changes I asked for.
Howdy guys. My buffs if I could change her at all:
- j.MK closer to something like Sakura’s, obviously. It whiffs all the time as it is, and it’s really hard to set up in the first place due to her poor walk speed. I think with how frequent this request is given we might finally get it!
- LK Tsurugi breaks armor. MK and HK Tsurugi are by far the more useful of her Tsurugis, and if they broke armor her pressure and footsies would lose so much guessing it’d be ridiculous. I don’t want them to break armor. LK Tsurugi on the other hand serves little to no use, and we could finally have a nice damaging counter to FA; right now about the best we have is dash > throw, which can be backdashed. Even normal xx EX Oroshi or EX Hayate can be FA’d in between, and those are our focus breakers for Odin’s sake!!!
- Faster U2. The post made by V-Ryu about this move is really accurate - you have to really wait for the fireball from full-screen to hit this, and it’s not too hard to get feinted into it. I also wouldn’t mind if that meant immediate screen freeze, as I’ll be the first to admit that reversal U2 works when it shouldn’t (though I normally use U1).
- cr.LK giving more frame advantage. While I think having it chain into st.LP would be too strong (f+MP on block, cr.LK is already strong, it’d be like stagger pressure if she could loop it on block), giving it +4 on hit would be quite welcome! Right now holding back against Makoto is just too damn good, as cr.LK xx Hayate and cr.HP are unsafe, and the advantages of walking out of a Karakusa or blocking an Oroshi are quite strong. We need a safe low game!
- f+LP only Hayate cancel-able. Anyone who’s tried f+LP xx Hayate KNOWS that far more likely you’ll get a Fukiage than a Hayate. This is our 3F normal, the only possible punish to blocked moves in some situations - why can we do NOTHING off of it when so many other characters get a proper punish? Besides, it’s not like f+LP xx Fukiage has any purpose.
Wishful thinking:
- cr.HP gives a safe jump after knockdown. Right now we HAVE to eye it for 5 frames, which is quite difficult to do against 4-5F reversals.
- Longer range on her FA. I think we’ve all seen the phantom foot go through the opponent and eaten a fat punish for it. Considering her poor walk speed, it’s hard to use FA in footsies outside of beating FA bait.
- cr.MK hitting low. Mainly to buff her meaties. Again, as above, holding back against her is damn good on wake-up. Most characters, especially offensive characters, can walk up and do a low starter as a hit-confirm to catch bad habits or keep the opponent honest.
- 1,000 health. I personally don’t mind lower, but it sure was nice while we had it.
here’s what i think:
definitely needs a better crossup in jumping mk
ultra II needs to be fireball invincible
more stun on fuki or stun during ultra II or more stun during super
ultra II needs to be faster, it’s a guessing game right now imo.
ex oroshi being throw invincible or having more invincibility frames
but i’ll take more damage on moves over all that stuff lol
I got a combo out of a charged hp hayate yesterday without any cancel after the hayate. That was the first time :x. Being able to keep hayate charged while walking would be pretty fun. It would actually give people reasons to think twice while mashing in our confirms/pressure. Something like fuerte/balrog/Juri.
We need bandage shirt buff to be SS tier. Make it happen Capcom.
Why do you guys want hayate safer on block??? It has ALWAYS been horribly unsafe on block. I hope they don’t take away her armor breaking ex Hayate. How about slightly better advantage on HIT for hayates? Nothing major just up the + frames on each hayate by 1. I could also make understand making oroshi throw invincible.
Totally agree.
After spending 2h in lab I’ve noticed Makoto doesn’t have really a scaring damage on her normals. Sounds strange,but it’s true. We need EX bars like no other character in this game to make some fat combos,the SF4 engine rewards too much a safe play and our girl is an all risk chara. I’m good with all you’ve said,but we need something to make Makoto a more viable tourney character. Or a better frame advantage on block with her normals or a slighty better damage. Our st.HP does 90dmg,3/4 of the actual cast does 100,some of them even 120-130,we make stun instead of real damage. Bonus,the recovery after the dash is really too long,we deserve a better one: I know,dashing all the time is stupid ,but really, get closer in those enormous stages is a pain. Still thinking she’s good after all,but risk/reward is still too disadvantaged to be competitive at really high level.
By asking a charged hayate, i dont ask it to be safer. It takes a lot of time to charge a hayate : she becomes vulnerable and counter hitable. That’s why she needs a reward, another mechamism that will help going further and/or make opponent think twice before he mashes another time.