Oroshi meterless is already good,the pushback on block make the move almost safe and use fadc is possible. It’s a hard punish move,not a simple overhead. I don’t think the fukiage hittin’ ground surpass the locktest,is a stupid suggestion and make hayates almost useless. I would prefer a better post hayate mixup the fuki’s.
Just so you dont think its “too strong” there is something going around with rose getting inv on her U2 again but even then everyone else is getting buffed…sooo it might not be that strong this time around…
ok fine, gouken is fu*&^% but gouki no! when makoto is in gouki’s vortex it’s tough as hell to get out. he just needs one knockdown and it all goes to hell. the makoto gouki matchup IMO is sverely in gouki’s favor.
They are going to nerf the vortexes. One of the major changes
And unblockables
edit: nvm, they did say this in that presentation
That fukiage thing seems really weird to me.
I hoped they would have done something for post hayate mixups and clk not being confirmable.
If the ultra1 damage is nerfed, what is the point of using super ?
Fuki does help cr.lk be confirmable cr lk, f.lp xx fukiage.
They will need to repurpose Super. I mean, it had literally, only one use. I still think that switching super and u2 would be better. Just do non animation and make Abare the Super. Then they could make the power up something different. Like allowing her to parry but not block and/or chaining all her normals with unlimited juggling until the time runs out, also I’d like a normal that causes airborne status. I’d pick it for that. Imagine how crazy things would be after resetting and doing ultra2. Or hitting hitting them in the air with the normal that causes airborne status and catching them with Fukiage combos.
Ah I’m just such a dreamer. I don’t GAF about the rest of the cast or the balance. Not after the cammy/seth/Akuma nonsense these past few years lol.
Glad to see that the makoto forums are alive again. Thanks Eternal for that awesome video of the capabilities of a grounded fukiage. Agree with most everyone here, looks awesome but potentially game-breaking. Still interested in hearing about any post-hayate changes (mak should be closer to the opponent, damnit!) and about a chainable c.lk. I sorta lost my way with makoto this past 1.5 years (been trying out Rose), but this Ultra update will hopefully get me back to using my favorite girl.
He’s fucked without it too. I think Gouken is Makoto’s freest match up and I never use U2 against anyone but sim.
Are you suggesting fireball invulnerability on U2 is unfair to some match ups? It makes no difference. No one should be throwing fireballs when U2 is stocked and characters like Gouki have some of the strongest footies in the game and does not need a fireball to get in on Makoto.
What I think Makoto’s super should do that would make sense, and be strong enough to consider stocking for super but not so strong as to make getting Super more important than Oki or going for guaranteed damage opportunities.
Make it so that Makoto’s Super lasts 10seconds (reduced from 13s) for those 10seconds Makoto gets free EX moves. FADCing would reduce the duration of the super by 2.5seconds for each FADC (basically FADCs cost 1bar instead of 2 in this context) but for the duration of the Super she can perform infinite EX moves as long as time allows. This is on top of the 25% damage buff.
Given how important meter and EX moves are to Makoto this works well for her. She gets to do some really damaging stuff and could likely do EX Karakusa - EX Hayate - LP Fukiage - EX Tsurugi more than once.
It also plays well against the other install type moves in terms of how much potential power it has whereas right now the 25% damage buff isn’t nearly as good as Genei Jin, Sei’ei Enbu, or Fung Shui Engine.
I highly doubt fuki hitting on the ground will make it in the final version, even if it is just ex fuki it will completely negate any reason to do ex hayate or orishi after a karakusa, u will get much more damage, stun, and a better reset if you want by doing HP, ex fuki, jump HP, or HK axe kick, or MK axe kick to ex hayate, or even mk axe kick to ex fuki since it can hit.
that’s what i’ve been saying, gouki beats makoto even without fireballs. gouken on the other hand looses anyway and very badly…
the only thing they need to do to super is increase the stun! so with super activated you actually get stun from anything you do. implemented right this could be good! i might actually want to use super once in a while to get that stun into ultra or ultra into stun, whatever lol
edit
ok, how about if they also change the properties of her moves when super is activated, so a grouded fuki can work. also change the juggle limit and what knocks down. so things like grounded fuki, kara HP fuki, hk tsurigi can work or hp hayate knocks down and can juggle so that in the corner hp hayate, fuki, hk tsurigi can also work. thats the only way i can see fuki hitting on the ground being implemented without rendering the rest of her specials useless.
No ex cost for 10 sec but no damage buff for the super seems fun to me. That would make her really scary.
[quote=“therobin, post:331, topic:151906”]
He’s fucked without it too. I think Gouken is Makoto’s freest match up and I never use U2 against anyone but sim.
Really,besides unblockables I haven’t no problems with Gouki. When Mak gets in isn’t that easy for him to leave out. Yes,he have a lot of tools to do that,but with some right reads we can deal with it. Gouki is still the best character of the game IMHO,but is not an impossible matchup. With U2 full fireball invincible,he can’t keep away via air fb,he’s almost forced to stay in range. I don’t cry if we get that change,but I would have an improvement in the post-hayate area much more.
one thing I really want is more use for her forward throw and/or for them to make it into a neutral throw like it was in 3S so she can kara throw for a knockdown.
Right now it just feels like her forward throw doesn’t do ENOUGH. I mean it’s ‘ok’ but the stun/damage isn’t even that high in comparison to normal throws which a number of characters do 130/150 or more AND get a set up and/or good positioning.
I can think of a bunch of ways they could change her forward throw to keep the flavor but make it more interesting/powerful/useful. Obvious one is to buff the damage EVEN MORE so it’s like 100damage 250 stun, that way she has a good change of causing a dizzy off of the throw which would be a low damage scaling dizzy due to the single hit of the throw.
They could make it so that Makoto could dash/jump cancel the recovery of the throw. If she does nothing she is at the same +1 advantage but maybe dash forward she is still only +1F but at point blank. Just make it so she still can’t combo even off of a jump IATsurugi.
Or they could make it so that it builds like 80 meter instead of 40. Viper’s back throw builds 60 meter so it’s not like there isn’t a precedent for a throw building more than the standard amount of meter. This would give Makoto a good option to build meter that she so desperately needs for EX moves.
Make it so that she can FADC the throw on hit and continue to combo like it was a Karakusa but cost her 2 bars.
Make it an OPTION to cause a hard knockdown or keep the opponent standing by holding down a button when you do the throw. Sort of like her feint sweep. Then speed up the recovery animation slightly, still both characters at the same frame advantage but it gives the opponent a little bit less time to react to if they got the hard knockdown or left standing. Giving Makoto a sort of reset mixup opportunity. Perhaps increase the frame advantage from omly +1 to +2
For now, only EX version hits grounded opponent.
It seems to be VERY strong, since you can do:
- f+LP > ex fuki, or crLK/crMP os ex fuki.
- Jump attack OS ex fuki
- air to air > land > ex fuki crossdown mixuo
- ex fuki > ultra2
Etc
Oh and there is a rumor which says that we will have 3 choice for ultra:
Ultra1
Ultra2
Ultra1&Ultra2 with less damage
Seems very powerful
ok, at least we now get a sort of 3rd strike type reset into fuki mixup…? also, i don’t understand the 3rd ultra thing, it’s a mix of the two ultras? are all characters getting this or just makoto?
…I hope they keep ex fuki hitting grounded opponents. Would make for some interesting setups, and it would give her some options for damage midscreen. Now, if they gave it just a few frames of invincibility! Use it to go under fireballs, but would be very unsafe on block.
Edit: was just thinking how fun karakusa -> HP -> Ex fuki jump, air reset, ex fuki cross under jump air reset, rinse and repeat for four bars would be lol.