Vs Fei -For spaced cw, where only last hit will connect, focus dash back throw is the best punish on reaction.
-Lk + mk CW are in fact more punishable: dash lk karakusa (lk cw) and dash ex kara (mk cw). But its hard to tell which cw it is sometimes, i gurss you could go off the spacing. Feis pretty much spam hk cw or lk cw to cross you up these days anyways.
-Same punish can be applied to the first hit of any rekka, but then you risk getting hit by 2nd rekka but onus is on them cause 2nd hit rekka can be ch focus if you level 1. Also this might not be practical but you can focus dash and still block the 2nd rekka in time if you react fast enough. Thus you could os a throw after the dash on a slight delay. And if they throw another rekka punish recovery
crouch tech whiff block
Adon is just an annoying fuck all around, i usually pull out Gouken in those matches, blow up his block strings/crossups/jumpins with Congo after jag kicks, lots of air hados…makes him manageable. Makoto on the other hand, doesn’t have shit, it’s just going to be a meat grinder & you’ll be lucky to get the win
For Adon, I’ve found that Makoto has a poke to deal with almost everything. (Makoto’s pokes - what it beats):
s.MP > Jaguar Tooth (EX Tsurugi seems to work sometimes too, but it’s tricky), s.HK
cr.MK or j.HP > LK, MK, HK Jaguar Kick
cr.LK > LK Rising Jaguar (use meaty for his wake up, though most Adon’s use HK or EX version, so this is really situational)
LP Fukiage > Neutral jumping HK (overhead, not on your wake up, works when Adon uses this to apply pressure from a block string)
I haven’t tried it out yet, but I’m pretty certain Fukiage can beat out Adon’s air Jaguar Kicks too if timed correctly, but that might not always be the case so be wary of that.
Still haven’t found anything that will beat EX Jaguar Kick except for her ultras, but you can dash under them with a forward dash.
Zangief’s are actually relatively easy to beat using Makoto for me, but I have a hard time with T. Hawk due to all of his specials beating out Focus Attacks and Condor Dive beating out Fukiage and Tsurugi. I’ve tried using s.MP before, but the best I can get is a trade and that’s in T. Hawk’s favor. Anybody have any tips?
Edit: Noticed somebody had a bit of trouble with people neutral jumping. If they do it on wake up or during a counter attack/throw tech situation, MP Fukiage or HP Fukiage (depending on distance) is a good punish. If you’ve already missed a throw, chances are you can still land a cr.MK to counter most neutral jump attacks (dive kicks not applicable). s.MP trades all too often with neutral jump attacks, so cr.MK is a good option if you do it late.
For T.hawk I use her f.hp>hp target combo on a blocked air to ground condor dive.The ground ones you have to eyeball the distance. st.mk st.mp st.hk are what I use to beat them.If they try to do whiffed condor dive to grab, IAT into ult/combo.
I’m gonna give my input, even though I haven’t ever fought a “good” T. Hawk, only divers. What I’m about to write is very much just based on testing, not really me fighting the Vangief of T. Hawks or anything. Take it with ten grains of salt.
I always punish blocked dives with Yamase. 220 damage will make them either die really quickly if they throw more random dives out or it will make them never do dives against Makoto.
I just tested it out, s.MP beats EVERYTHING I had meterless Hawk do on wakeup except Ultra. All normal DPs lost without fail. s.MP rapes all versions of Condor Spire, without fail, other moves losing, trading, or winning depending on the spacing. Poke wise s.MP and s.HK if spaced farther out beat all the standing pokes Hawk has, but of course he could low attack you then pretty easily.
c.MK is really good against his jump-ins, but sometimes you’ll both whiff and he’ll be right next to you, which is not good. It seems like his nastiest jump-in is j.RH, and c.MK isn’t consistent against it. I recommend, over any character in the game, Fukiage-ing on reaction to Hawk’s jump. His jump is so high and his hit box is SO big that he’s a jumping target, and you’ll feel like Fukiage is an SRK on steroids (~300 damage off of one Fukiage and followups). It will even beat his dive if he does it close to you, but it can sometimes hit you depending on spacing. Still, it’s rare.
Also, I am REALLY convinced now that big characters make linking on them easier. I can link as many s.MPs as is allowed on Hawk while I might be lucky to get two s.MPs on Ryu within four tries.
Are you doing meaty s.MP’s on T. Hawk’s wake up? I would think that EX Rising Hawk (his SRK) would beat it out as well as EX Mexican Typhoon. Generally, I don’t like to stay next to grapplers on their wake up, as most are buffering 360 motions on their wake up, but if s.MP beats out his command grabs and DPs on his wake up I’ll definitely use that.
I just retested it, and for some reason I’m getting stuffed now. Sorry for the inaccurate result - I must have somehow been doing the wrong move as T. Hawk. I just confirmed EX DP and EX SPD do indeed beat out s.MP. I’m guessing it’s Tsurugi city on him, then.
I find it alot easier to counter Adon’s wall dive with f.MP than s.MP. It still beats it clean but it stays out for like a million years so your timing can be worse.
Ok Vs honda there are some very specific punishes you need to do to get the best dmg/stun due to the odd interaction that happens with the whiff animation of oicho (where his head is leaned forward) and his standing hit stun animation in which his head reels back v far. These working together meaning honda ends up quite some distance after the first hit of a punish as such i found the best punishes to be:
?Backdash: f+mk-hk target best punish (f+fp whiffs after 1 hit)
-Neutral jump: neutral jump late hp, f+fp (300 dmg, 570 stun) OR for knockdown neutral jump hk, st mp xx ex oroshi (256dmg 450 stun)
-Ultra: neutral jump mk, ultra 1 best (heavies have more risk pushing too far!)
Something else i just noticed for honda the same hitbox interaction stuff will cause honda to be out of range for lk karakusa after a karakusa - st mp xx feint - karakusa reset, you have to use mk karakusa to reach.
Edit- Another thing, makoto has a big problem to deal with atm anti air focus. Because her backdash has such long recovery and goes so far, it means you cant backdash an aa focus then whiff punish with a normal like most other char. So this has to be dealt with for until her backdash is patched in the AE changes (it has been reported to be shorter). The only reliable method to punish this form of defence is thus to backdash and xx the recovery of backdash into lp hayate to punish the whiff. This is the only way to really skew the risk reward in your favour against people constantly fishing for counter hit lvl 1 crumple/lvl 2 fa’s. You can try jab to beat the startup of the lvl 1 fa out but its bad risk reward, cause you risk being crumpled then knocked down.
The only other good way to deal with it (besides empty jumping and throwing) is to focus attack dash throw the lvl 1 fa (will punish all backdashes besides fuerte) or block the lvl 1 and try cr hk their backdash recovery (cr hk can reach Ryu, Ken, Honda, Gouken, Sagat, Dee Jay, Cody, Hakan, Zangief mid screen if the FA was close, in the corners all fa lvl 1 backdash can be punished except 22f or quicker backdash and adon and akuma cant be punished i think… something liek this, and for boxer, cody, dic and seth fa lvl 1 backdashing in corner st mk xx is the better punish altho for dic and seth cr hk does hit its just tight punish).
Probably an easy question to solve: how do you get in on Adon? He controls the ground pretty well with his anti-focus, super-safe specials and good pokes, and he can AA seemingly really well. A seemingly good throw range and good walk speed seal the deal. Best I’ve got on actually getting in on a zoning Adon is F+MP to beat random specials and spamming s.MP when I’m moderately close. If he guesses right on a RJ when I get close, I have to approach again. Ugh, I can win the match, but it’s just annoying.
Any neat tricks on his wakeup or on my wakeup, or just in general?
eh, if you ask me you don’t really want to try getting in on Adon, most Adons love abusing his specials, work on that first with your wall of MP’s & MK’s to keep him grounded…after that you’re just gonna have to read your opponent & adjust accordingly, Adon really doesn’t have much in terms of footsies, just his standing HK. as long as you neutralize his jag kicks he should not be able to out-poke you
I havent been able to test this as often but this has been working for me in the Akuma match up. If you expect cross up tatsu, do EX karakusa. It should auto correct, take the hit, and grab him. Keep in mind this opens you up for empty jump throw.
If you expect meaty dive kick. Do Fukiage with all three punches. This goes back to V-Ryu posting about avoiding Ibuki’s vortex by doing MP Fukiage against the kunai to reset yourself in the air. I was never able to get the timing down consistantly but for whatever reason if you do Fukiage with all three punches the EX will not activate and I get the air reset every time. I tried to get the air reset with LP, MP, HP, and two button variations with no luck. Maybe my timing just sucks, but Fukiage with all three punches gets the air reset from meaty dive kick every time. If someone can further test this I’d appreciate it.
The ex karakusa OS is known i discovered it the OS principle was discovered by alioune tho for cross tatsus. Check the OS thread. Mp fukiage doesnt reset out of meaty kunai but ex karakusa/ex oroshi/u2 are ways to get out. As for akuma cr mk beats palm and demon flip grab, p link on first frame to give better chance of coming out.
Vs adon his air jag kicks can be cr mk underneath, his ground ones st mk from mid distance if u expect he’ll do it to hit the startup, the close ground one (hk jag kick) the one that goes vertical and slams down cant be cr mk under, jump back fierce can beat this. Safe jumps for adon: back throw he wakes up 2f later and ex oroshi he wakes up early but they are only 1 f different overall, f+ lk neutral jump gives a safe jump against adon (just need to delay the f+lk 1f for backthrow which is 1f longer wakeup than ex oroshi for adon). Hope that helps.
