I’d say just be real patient. Neutral jumps, IATs, and just good ol blocking. Try not to let the chip damage rattle you; you’ll get into kill range before blocking all those Sonic Booms becomes a real issue.
Reacting differently to the Sonic Booms will prevent the Guile player from from figuring out a good approach. Alternatively, convincing him that you’ll always respond to an SB the same way can tempt him to advance in on you in a certain way. For instance, forward jumping over the booms might tempt the Guile player to try and land a jump in on you as you hit the ground again. Keep the timing in your favor and you can land and counter with an anti-air immediately to turn the tide. Another option might be to continuously block the SB’s high, tempting the player to follow the projectile in with a low attack. Block it and punish or absorb the Sonic Boom and release your Focus Attack to counter attack him.
Also, a lot of Guile players who do this will charge by walking backwards instead of crouching so they can maintain maximum distance. What this means is that they are both concentrating on launching projectiles in succession and unable to use flash kick. You can basically just jump across the screen toward them as long as they don’t wise up. Try a hail-mary jump in strategy and see how they deal with it.
well, i’m not really talking about the garden variety online scrub guile. i mean one who
does not make unsafe jump ins
does not use c.hk
does not miss AAs (c.hp, s.hp, guile high kick, air throw, j.roundhouse, etc.)
works to stay at max jump-in range the entire match AKA does not advance, period
walking and blocking doesn’t work because of makoto’s poor footspeed. you end up where you started.
jumping against guile is suicide for all characters except maybe balrog so that’s out.
focus absorb / dashing always sees me eating a s.hp or worse to the face.
all i can think of is intentionally eating a c.hp here and there and then empty jumping just out of range so i can throw it’s recovery. of course that all depends on whether the guile player is good enough to see the range difference and hit s.hp instead.
Wait for a LP Boom. Neutral Jump or HK Tsurugi over it.
He can’t throw another one while the first is still on-screen. Kara EX Hayate to cover the distance in no time.
If it hits, you’re in and can fuck him up for a while.
If it’s blocked, you eat reversal flash kick.
If it whiffs, you’ll probably eat a Sonic Boom, but are now a lot closer to him. If you’re really unlucky he’ll hit you with a df+HK (ouch)…
The risk is in your favour unless he has his Super ready. That shit hurts.
If you have a life lead, don’t bother approaching. Neutral jump, Tsurugi over, focus, or just block everything. Make him come to you.
If you tend to block and focus while not approaching too heavily, most of the guiles you mentioned will start trailing their booms. IA Tsurugi will work if you do the timing right - too late and you’ll hang for a Guile AA. This fight requires no urgency on your part to get in - your eagerness to charge headlong into Guile will get you killed. I suggest a feint here or there once you’re inside - Guiles love to Summersault if they block a hayate by default, and if you fake and guard quick enough, you’ll block it with ease.
Ninja, actually, I think the reason is because people who play online face no pressure. They have nothing at stake and they don’t feel pressure because their opponent is not there. When they’re at a tournmanet, people get nervous. They don’t play with a pattern. Instead, they play on the fly.
i dont really understand why ex hayate would hit him, what’s his incentive for not holding down back? just seems odd to me. if you do this more than once won’t he just hold focus and murder you for trying to close that distance unsafely again? i dig that about the life lead but that’s the problem in the first place, lol.
well … i mean, i don’t play guile or anything but it’s really not hard to watch for hayate and react to it on block, lol. are you having a lot of success baiting out FK like that? i played a guile the other night just blocking everything and trying to walk / safely IAT my way in (only IAT outside of air grab and c.fp range). by the time we reached the corner the timer was @ 50 and i was down a third of my life from chip haha.
i appreciate the help but a lot of this is ‘make him come to you, be patient, etc’ but guile doesn’t seem to have any incentive to move forward 'cause the clock is his friend.
I have some huge success with it. Especially against higher points Guile. They see the Hayate motion from the fake, and get geared to FK it, only to get it blocked. All you need to do is once you’re in B range, go for 2-3 pokes, wait. Throw some Oroshi into the mix, they seem to eat those like pop tarts.
Guiles may not have an incentive to move, but damn do they move around and squirm once you got them against that wall in B to A range. They’ll start twitching and doing things, and it’s up to you to safely figure out their twitches and make them eat it hard. Expect a FK or 5.
The first thing i do against a guile is to identify what he’ll try to do after his sonic: crouch for a flash kick, follow a LP sonic boom, jump for a grab.
i just block the first sonic boom, for the second sonic boom, i already had an idea of how he plays guile.
then i try to close gap with Tsurugi, best tool i think.
Finally, oroshi is awesome mixed with some pause in my combos to bait a FK.
i don’t know any guiles who throw out unsafe flash kicks. unless it’s a clear punish situation they only bother if they have 2 bars to make it safe. lol.
also what do you mean by B to A range? i’m assuming you’re talking about the xbox controller or something, but i play on (ps3) stick so i have no idea what you mean haha.
Must train against shitty player so, not surprising given my shitty play ahahhahaha. Where can i find the best players? People say endless match but i don’t understand why they would run from ranked matches.
His incentive is throwing another Sonic Boom. The aim is to punch him out of its startup.
If he starts trying to bait the EX Hayate (by blocking, walking backwards out of its range, focusing, etc.)… good. It means you can start getting away with crap like hop over Sonic Boom > Dash.
Also use Kara Focus. It can slightly throw off Guile’s timing when he’s trying to do consecutive Sonic Booms.
First post with the matchup info really needs to be changed. No way in hell is Makoto vs. Guile 6-4 in Makoto’s favor (maybe vs. inexperienced or crappy Guiles that don’t know what to do, but that defeats the purpose of a matchup chart); it’s more like 7-3 Guile’s favor because he doesn’t need to take risks to win while Makoto pretty much has to. Smart Guiles will throw a LP Boom to force a reaction from you in which they have an answer for everything you do. Normal jump over? Get anti-aired if spaced improperly, or get air-thrown if he wants to be fancy (and corner you). Tsurugi over? Get focused/anti-aired/air-thrown/punished on whiff if spaced right (did people forget Tsurugi has recovery on whiff or something?). Focus dash forward? Get smacked in the face cuz of lol recovery on her dash and LP Boom recovery. Let’s not forget that Guile has good normals to give him some breathing room in case you do manage to get in close, like cr.MK/s.MK and the occasional jab spam. Oh, and like people before have said, smart Guiles will never Flash Kick unless they have enough meter to FADC it to make it safe. Plus, Makoto’s backdash is ass and Flash Kick covers quite a bit of horizontal distance so you can’t try baiting it out with backdashes.
Simply put, Makoto is screwed and has no option except to take gambles and hope they pay off. Most Makoto/Guile fights I’ve seen and played have either Guile laming out Makoto making her look like a noob, or Makoto getting really lucky and steamrolling Guile. Unfortunately it’s more of the former than the latter.
Makoto vs. Guile might end up being the new Dictator vs. Guile of Vanilla. She’s going to have a rough time getting in on him. Though I believe he’s the only fireball based character that will make things that hard for her. Everyone else has much longer recovery on their fireballs and one bad fireball will have her focus dashing or IATing right over it and punishing.
If they just reduced the recovery on her dashes, it’d make Focus Dash through booms more viable
Also, I found the answer for something that cleanly beats Dudleys jumping FK: Jumping MK. Jump Back MK beats it cleanly, it also beats him if you jump straight up or forward and meet him in the air. Its literally the only move I’ve found that cleanly beats it, sucks it had to be an air move
Each Sonic Boom Guile throws is another risk/reward scenario for him. He CAN NOT lame out Makoto because you’re not going for a clean hit or to walk him down. You just want to trade against him to get a knockdown because then he’s screwed.
When he throws a Sonic Boom, he’s going for a s.FP, c.FP, air throw, or meet you air to air. There is an option to beat each of these and grant a knockdown/trade-knockdown. In reality he never wants you near him you just have to guess right. He can’t “react” to everything. . .well he could but it’s up to YOU to throw him off with timing and having him think you’re gonna try something else.
The match up definitely isn’t 7-3 in his favor because he’s free sauce after one knockdown.
ok so i can see knocking guile down being the make or break. once he gets bar for ex flash kick you have to read it right or you start back at square 1. i can see how he’s free to a degree when he’s on his back but mak’s crossup game is ass and that’s arguably his biggest weakness.
HK tsrugi can trade with s.hp for a knockdown or maybe c.hp if his timing is off. i haven’t been able to beat AA c.hp with ANYTHING yet but maybe i’m just missing something.
jump forward tsrugi doesn’t change your timing so maybe neutral jump late tsrugi might work if he’s walking forward for some reason?
air throw is sometimes preemptive so you can antiair and get a reset into ground mixup if he risks it and you’re on point.
his j.rh / j.hp might get beat with mak’s beastly j.hp into reset / ground mixup if you do it early?
random focus at the right range after blocking a boom might lead into CH crumple vs backfist?
someone told me that LK flash kick got buffed somehow but his wiki page says it’s still only invincible 1-3f and hits on 4f, so i guess he doesn’t get a free out until he scores 3 bars?
this match reallllly reminds me of playing honda v guile. lol. guile has an answer for everything so you only get in once he fucks up. just difficult to force a mistake out of a solid, low-risk player with good reactions. and you’re half dead by the time you touch him, haha.
Sorry about the ranges, it’s a mental thing for me when I’m gauging what I can do.
C range = out of range of all of Mak’s moves.
B range = in range of IA Tsurugi, F+HK, and other large advancing moves. May also be in range of cHP.
A range = in range for all normals, no karas required.
A+ range = might as well be hugging the guy.
Another suggestion. Guiles have a rhythm of how they Sonic boom sometimes. It’s a nasty habit they get. Time the rhythm, and you can IA Tsurugi them hard.