Abuse meaty st.MP against Bison. His reversals are all too slow to hit it (except LK super) so you get a free block and/or punish. Good reflexes are absolutely necessary:
EX Scissors : Block > BnB
EX Psycho Crusher : Block > Reversal EX Hayate (awkward input due to crossup, but it works :lovin:)
EX Stomp : f+MP (makes it whiff) > BnB
EX Reverse : f+MP in case it’s a stomp. What to do afterwards is a partial guess since it’s hard to tell what his followup will be:
-> BnB if he lands empty.
-> cr.MK (> reset) if he tries to hit you with it. Fukiage works, but I find cr.MK easier to react with.
-> EX Hayate if he tries to land far away.
Teleport : EX Hayate (if he goes behind he gets smacked by Oroshi instead)
Backdash : Unfortunately this screws things up. If you option select something to punish it then you start getting hit by the reversals. The best way to deal with it is to remove it as an option by dashing at him while he’s down; shoving him into the corner.
If he doesn’t do a wakeup reversal, meaty st.MP leaves you up to +8 on block.
This means you can throw another st.MP (or something else. cr.HP is great if you can get the timing down) and Bison will not be able to use a reversal in between; If he tries then he loses his charge, and he gets hit if he does anything except hold down against the cr.HP variant.
Using cr.MK instead of st.HK also works really well after Bison’s LK Scissors. It works especially well against Bison’s st.HK. Just make sure you don’t use it when he’s too close or you risk getting counterhit.
Generally, just aim to whiff it in front of him so he runs on to it if he tries anything aggressive.
Other tidbits -Dp/cr mk beats devils reverses: cr mk beats clean
-Lp fukiage beats headstomp clean: slightly risky, do it early and can block late devils reverse but not early.
-Safe jump, OS st hk trades ex pc in makoto favour: more dmg stun, ex stomp whiffs too as move forward then punish, loses to ex scissors (but unsafe move) but safe against u2 as animation starts before st hk input registers. Meaty too slow to os st hk from.
-Cr hp, dash forward, st lk, st hk times it to trade reversal ex pc AND reversal ex scissors [mine], loses to non reversals
–F + FP/st mp/cr mp whiff scissors recovery: ie punish bison scissor approaches
-Can ultra 2 teleports + devils reverse + head stomps
I don’t have much else to add to the Bison strats everyone’s mentioned here but, I will say I feel a lot better about this match up than earlier into the game’s release.
I’ve had a lot of good favor using st.mp buffered into Hayate on his extended limbs and a f+hk(feint) cross up on a fallen Bison can be used to eliminate a reversal Psycho Crusher option by ruining his charge.
EX Oroshi, U1, or U2(mk) on reaction.
Various normals can beat the LK/MK version (cr.MK, st.MP), but don’t try to do so on reaction. It’s just a matter of throwing the move out at random so he runs onto it. His HK version destroys normals but it whiffs if he isn’t really close (punish the recovery).
Neutral Jump MK seriously screws him up. Spam it from around a quarter to half screen away to stuff him mid flight, or if you’re lucky catch his landing for a full combo.
Hit MK when you reach the peak of the jump - it has a huge amount of active frames that will last right up until landing.
Random backdashes and dashes will cause him to regularly misjudge the distance and whiff it. Smack his recovery with anything.
Ok this isn’t a rant or anything like that. More of a can someone help me understand where I am going wrong so I can get better rofl.
Now most of you know I go to tournaments and I do fairly well for the most part. Somewhere in the top 15ish is where I usually make it though as of late it’s usually been top 8.
With that said no one I play in the tourney ever “mashes”. Like no matter how bad/good the player is after losing a set or even a round they just completely stop mashing and try to figure out how to fight me. Example I’ll beat someone doing literally no other attacks other than s.mp and c.mp and hit confirm into CHOP or Hayate. That’s it. . . .after that round or set loss to that they decide to block.
Now I go online and I want to try new stuff, set ups, etc. . . but I can’t because no matter how many rounds I beat certain people with just s.mp xx hayate/CHOP they will come back the next round and try even harder to lose the same way.
Am I giving people too much credit or something? I’m not saying the people who beat me are bad. It’s more like I play in tourneys and it throws me off when I kill people with something and I expect adaptation but instead of that I get “well it’s online so this is what you will beat me with”. . .
I feel like I can’t progress until I’m able to beat people online semi-consistently. It can’t be online (though breaking throws seem to be mad hard online compared to offline) because I don’t like to make excuses. I just am trying to understand what to do next lol
YES. Makoto is a character you can outplay yourself and lose.
With online players, I see what they open with, try to get a feel of what they’re doing. Usually in the first 10-15 I can get an idea of what to expect from them. From there I make a battleplan and attack them accordingly. Sagat spamming fireballs? Free U2s plz. DP spam? Heres the BnB. Jump more? Antiair options, GO. Sucker loves to throw? Eat a Tsurugi.
If you give some people online too much credit, they will beat you by sheer luck as you take incidental damage here and there until you’re dead. But whatever works. If you can spam something to death, and win, no one is gonna change it (LOL LK Pinwheel Juri spam, turtle and Sonic Boom Guile, JAB JAB JAB ROG).
Yea I hate playing random’s online sometimes… just depends…
Mashing invincible reversal blindly beats a lot of mak’s trickiest setups… and leaves you just knocking them down over and over til they lose. Then sometimes… they start blocking and you get try kara setups… but often… sadly no…
Online is so frustrating for me.
I’m not a very good Makoto but I feel I am doing progress. However. I got my Makoto to 5040 BP and had myself somewhere around 1300PP but after that I’ve been in some sort of pendulum between 1300pp and 300pp and my Makoto recently dropped under 4000BP again. The reason is that I keep loosing to people with extremely low BP/PP and very random playstyles. Or that’s how it feels anyway.
I’ve lost rounds by getting hit by Kens U1 (and Ryus U2) while I’m trying to hit my own ultra after a Karakusa (Must have missed the link somehow). The samt thing has happened between c.mp -> hayate but in that case I must have messed up bigtime to miss the cancel. Those things aren’t too uncommon and happen atleast once a session. I also find it difficult to decide if the person I’m playing is “smart enough” to get fooled by my shenenigans or if he is stupid enough to eat ex karakusas all day long.
I guess the problem is that when I face opponents at my own level I don’t necessarily win but I get something out of it, but when I face players that just play randomly I can’t learn anything and I usually lose alot of points hindering my progress which in turn keeps me away from the “better players”. That’s my main concern as well. How far up in the PP ranks do I have to climb in order to meet decent players? I’ve met some good players at 1000-1500pp but at the same time I’ve met fireballspamming Sagats and srk-maniacs (some of which I’ve beaten) at 2000+ pp. I guess what I’m saying is, is it even worth spending time trying to climb the online ranks for better opposition?
Now, I know that offline is better and that I should try to find better players offline, and I do. The problem is that I live on an island here in sweden with about 30k inhabitants and it is expensive to travel to the main land. I do have a few players to play here and some of them are better than me, but sometimes they are just not enough.
Sorry for the rant, but as I said, online has been very frustrating the last few days for me.
Don’t waste time with ranked if you want to improve. Ranked good to just test how solid your game is. I do it now and then when i felt i’ve sort’ve overcome a barrier that’s been hindering my play to get a better PP. I’ll play endless if i want to just improve. Getting a sufficient amount of ranked matches for exposure is a good idea for a new character though, only need to get about 1-2k BP imo though.
Endless is where it’s at, make a 2 player room if you want to learn, or bigger if you feel there’s something obvious lacking in your game. Join a chatroom of decent players and start getting good games. It’s also wise to play team or endless battles and pay close to attention to players, there’s not anything spectacular going on between 2-4k PP. Players just get more solid and consistent with fundamentals, especially execution.
Here are few things I found out for Dudley (scrubs and decent players alike):
To fight dudley, s.mp seems to give him a lot of problems. S.hk does the same thing in just about every aspect. On his wakeup with no meter, he’s freesauce. Meaty s.mp/s.hk, meaty chop, w/e.
To counter wakeup counters, just c.lk xx hayate or sweep, meaty chops work here too (if u see someone just counter out of the blue, u can simply chop him (ex is the easiest to actually hit him with on reaction. Counter ALWAYS loses to chop)).
If he starts to DP on wakeup (well, period), if u bait it, this is perfect for u.
LP DP Punish on block
-light reversal karakusa
-reversal U1
-BnB of choice.
MP, HP, EX DP Punish on block
-everything previously mentioned
-reversal mp fukiage xx hp fukiage juggle xx Ex hayate/Tsurugi juggle before they even land. (The EX DP u would need to input the HP fukiage the other way; the mp fukiage will send them backwards).
If they EX machine gun blow and u block it. It’s ALWAYS REVERSAL U1 PUNISHABLE!!! U1 takes 7 frames to startup and ex machine gun blow is -8 on block. You can BnB also. Even s.HP comes out before he can do anything about it.
Overall, you can poke pretty well against Dudley, and you can make him pay dearly for mistakes. he’s gotta be in the same area you love to be in, pretty close. To me, this matchup is even or 6-4 makoto.
Thanks, I guess endless is the way to go then
I usually play endless quite alot but often I either get kicked as soon as I win a game or I get kicked for being “not good enough”. I guess it’s just about being patient and finding a group of people that are willing to let you stay around.
EX DP is Dudley’s only invincible move besides Super/Ultra.
Everything else loses to any meaty every time. That includes all non-EX DPs and any Cross Counter.
Just rush the fuck out of him on knockdown. Once he gets Ultra start using meaty st.LP - You can block wakeup Ultra after it as long as you get the timing right (2f window).
Well, there’s Thunderbolt too, but that move is garbage. No-one ever uses it because you have around 3 years to react and block and punish.
I think the best part vs dud’s is he’s afraid to get to close to mak but can’t do anything if he doesn’t… I like to make enough space so that I’m closer than he likes to do MGB or SSB… but far enough away that he can’t poke. Usually baits a j.fk which if you baited… can easily be fukiaged.
so how exactly is makoto supposed to get close to a guile that’s playing lame? seems like his match against honda, where he can just throw boom and play reactively to any buttons you press. except you can’t use honda’s strategy, which is to just block and walk him to the corner …
