Makoto Strategy and Match-ups

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
841

I noticed that none of the listed option selects against backdash seem to work against Chun (assuming I don’t screw them up.)

One of my personal favorites, which might be worth mention, is this:

meaty s.LK, buffer :qcf: :lp::hp::mk:

LK = thumb, lp = index, mk = middle, hp = pinky

If the LK whiffs because she backdashed, then the LK->MK target combo comes out and the MK part tags her if timed correctly (input done quickly). If LK hits or is blocked, special moves have input priority over the target combo, so EX Hayate comes out, pushing her to the corner to help prevent future backdashes. Unfortunately EX Hayate isn’t safe on block and she can super if she has it, or just jab you afterward most of the time. But the LK->MK target combo itself is also unsafe, so I find this worth doing regardless for the extra potential spacing reward.

You can also use EX Oroshi instead of EX Hayate if you don’t think she’ll jab you out of it, or do just MK + HP for a hayate feint if you don’t want to spend EX or feel like trying a karakusa tick throw. Other options that exist include plain oroshi or hayate, or buffering super with :qcf::qcf: :mk::hp: if you want to do that for some reason.

I know this method also works against El Fuerte and Ibuki’s backdashes. I’m not sure if there are any characters it doesn’t work on.

Makoto’s target combos are interesting for OS in general. It’s also possible to do something like delaying the MK so that it only comes out if LK hits/is blocked, then buffering something else immediately after the MK input which will come out if the LK whiffs. Something similar is possible with :r::mk:->:hk: target combo. Not sure of any practical uses atm.

842

i’m surprised this isn’t covered in vs adon part. What the fuck do you do against jaguar kick spam? it seems makoto can’t do shit against it when blocked -_-;; It’s armor breaking too! so damn stupid.

843

cr.MK

844

I second that.

845

hey everyone. I wanted to add a small intro to playing Makoto in the front page, so I’m currently working on that for a bit. Here’s a rough draft of what I ahve so far:
http://pastebin.com/umBH2BFT

Obviously, it’s not finished yet, but I’m posting it for you guys to see if I made any errors or if there’s anything extra I need to add. I want to get this finished by next week or so.

Good shit to everyone collecting info and grinding it out with makoto. I kinda left the Makoto boat for a bit to stick with my Chun main, but I still mess around with Makoto here and there because she can be fun at times.

846

Meaty Cr mk is safe vs some reversals since shes in ?low? hitbox state. Beats/safe against all DJ reversals, boxer norm headbutt (not ex), Honda buttslam and rufus ex messiah will whiff last hits at closest range.

847

If your guile is silly enough to c.HK you when you get close an EX-Karakusa after the first blocked hit is golden instead of a focus. Armor will absorb second hit and will grab his limb as he is recovering. They can’t spam srk so its very plausible FFK for a second grab. Try it out in training mode. Also I’ve had some success with making guiles come to me instead. Most will resort to lp sonic boom and walk behind it when I stay away long enough. If they do I Focus absorb back dash to a F.FP target combo or a F.MK to focus combo or karakusa. Obviously situational but good times nonetheless. Just like anything else these only work on certain players but they are just additional tools to have in your bag.

848

IAT could be a could be a good punish too thinking off the top of my head.

849

Pasted reply on Boxer/Guile approach.

If the ROG likes to jump, sMP, sMK are great. sMK can catch his tail when he jumps too, so you’re less likely to trade with it. Lucky for you, ROG has jack for cross up jumps, so you’re less likely to see those jumps.

EX IS KEY. If he isn’t moving and is charging full screen, start Oroshi or Fukiage spam for some EX bar. Don’t let yourself get hit while spamming, but if you can build the meter, WHY NOT. There’s no reason to go into him without an EX bar. EX KARAKUSA IS SEXY. If he jumps in and you block, you can EX kara if you are fast enough. You can also dash in and EX Kara. He’ll usually jab quicky at the dash, or maybe cHK, but Kara armor from EX will eat the hit and you get the grab. Don’t get your Hayates blocked, it’s a free punish. Also, this match up is one where sMP poking is a poor plan if sMP is out of range, as cHK will sweep you clean. If he’s spamming you with uppers, straights, Focusing is good. Focus and backdash, and if you get the stagger on focus hit, you can generally dash and U1.

Edit: TC2 is pretty good against Balrog, even if he’s crouching, since he’s got a decent sized hit box. fMK will whiff Guile unless it puts you very close.

Finally, to approach, fMP, fLK, IA Tsurugi are all not bad, just don’t float the Tsurugi or he’ll antiair you no problem.

I won’t cover ROG wakeup game, refer to the match up section.

Same with Guile, Hayates are easy punish for him on block. Only he has a sonic boom to deal with. Tsurugi’s will save you in case you muff the timing on jumping a sonic boom, and will float you longer. Be careful, he can knock you out of the air before you Tsurugi hits him if he trails the sonic boom. Mix up jumps, blocks, focus, while dealing with booms or he will deal with your patterns. If he trails, you can backdash too, just to mess with his timing and rhythm. The best time to make up ground is to IA Tsurugi a slow boom, then make in the distance quickly before he can fire another while the first is on screen. Also, when you’re floating in B range, throw some fLKs or fMPs. If he cHK, focus and nail him. If you stagger him, follow up, otherwise backdash and recover the damage. You have to be a golden god to punish the booms with U2.

In general, DO NOT JUMP IN ON THESE GUYS.

850

http://www.option-select.com/strategy/char/?c=27

Click on the “matchups” part.

Assuming this is by Flash, since he posted his thoughts on Viper’s matchups on the Viper board and said he was gonna post one on Makoto’s matchups today, and Mak’s chart was empty last night when I checked.

Can’t say I disagree overall, but I’m definitely curious about his rationale behind a few things. Guile being 6-4 in her favor, mostly. I don’t think the Guile match is as bad for her as a lot of people make it out to be, but I don’t know what he thinks gives her the edge. Same with Abel, to a lesser extent.

I’m wondering why he thinks Vega is 4-6 too. When I play Makoto, I plow through Vegas like 90% of the time. But that might just be because I play a Vega pretty regularly that makes most other Vegas seem like easy-mode in comparison.

851

Wow he and I are almost on the same page give or take a few match ups. I think I understand his reasoning behind the Guile match up and the Abel match up though I don’t full agree with it. I feel at best it’s a 5-5 match up but it’s probably because I have bad experiences with Abel players rofl

Vega. . . .well I’m sure he CAN keep you out pretty well but I feel like once she gets in. . .he’s virtually option-less but he is able to control space much better. I think the main problem with Vega is him getting the life lead, he’s a bitch to catch but when you do he’s easy to contain. Unless there is something I’m missing.

852

Same hear i don’t understand why Makoto should have advantage on Guile since she has nothing to deal with Sonic Boom and jump forward Tsurugi is not even a solution here as he can easily close the distance and throw out a st. HP right before you recover from it or even worse.

Overall her worst match-up IMO is Gouki cause he has more defensive tools than the average character and one of the best Vortex in the game.

853

the difficult part is closing the distance (f+MP, f+LK, IA tsurugi, FA dash).
Once you’re close, just abuse with overhead xD

for the tierlist, lot of matchup i dont really agree :frowning:

854

Front page updated. Read and Discuss. =)

855

against dhalsim, if you charge a bit your FA and he uses st.HP, you can release lvl2 in his arms before he recovers.

856

Wow guys…I really need to see some vids against a tough Balrog. I just can’t seem to do anything but defend against an onslaught of what seem to be completely safe attacks. I’ve had VERY marginal success grabbing a limb with karakusa.

I’d like to abuse her wake up options but, c.hp isn’t so hot here because rog is constantly charging and oroshi isn’t so hot because he’s constantly spamming lp. That leaves back throw for a knock down or maybe ex tsurugi and I’m really not finding a hell of a lot of opportunities for either since I can only risk being close for a millisecond before getting pummeled to death.

857

So far I agree, I have yet to beat a competent Balrog with Makoto. My theory is to incorporate more EX Karakusa into my game to beat the rush punches, which I never use, but I havent really messed with it yet.

Another thing which gives me issue is Dudleys jumping Roundhouse; the match isn’t so bad, but I have yet to find an answer that beats the move; c.mk, s.mp. s.mk, c.RH, Jump Back fierce, dp, they all get beat. I’ve resorted to dashing, but with her terrible recovery it just seems to still be risky.

858

In my experience, s.mk is the most reliable solution to Dudley’s j.hk. It still trades more frequently than I’d like but, it seems to do much better than the others.

There is always fukiage.mp to sort of work around that elbow. Dudley can land that HK from really high in the jump though, so you have to get it out pretty early.

859

Just played a set with a Bison player. Bison is such a bad match up for her because he can literally put moves on the screen and she just has to block rofl. Unless of course you’re a Jedi and just predict everything. Right now for me the entire match is if I get a knockdown he has to guess between meaty s.FK and karakusa which of course he could teleport but in general I’m “fairly” safe if he teleports. He out pokes you at every range because of the speed and range. You can’t really counter poke him because his are longer than yours (no homo x_x). With meter EVEN if you manage to close the distance he is just gonna do EX PC which in reality you can do nothing about. And you can’t play hit and run like some characters because well . . .you’re Makoto rofl.

Oh well gonna learn this stupid match up in and out till I get it down perfectly. Almost want to just pick Guile and start owning people fearlessly. . . .

860

EX hayate punishes a guarded EX pyscho crusher.
MP hayate too, but depends on distance.
(be sure to be in neutral position with stick before doing hayate, or makoto will do fukiage)

Makoto’s st.HK will eat almost everything bison would do after a guarded kneepress.

Dahs&Punish any wakeup teleport.

Fukiage EX devil reverse on wakeup.

I dont have many trouble against him. He cannot play his game.