Actually,the first setup works on a lot of the cast, I’d say like 90% of the cast. Still you have to be like at point blank to be on st.mp range
So I found this tosagirlmakoto.wordpress.com/makoto-tips-and-tricks-2/setups-after-knockdown/
How much of this is still relevant?
I’m playing on pc (still no ultra), but I believe most of it should be. Just take into account the possible DWU, but other than that most of the moves’ frames remained untouched.
Anybody has a safe pressure tool against shotos post c.HP ? I tried finding something like the backthrow > dash > f.MP > MK IAT that makes DPs whiff and catches almost any possible action on wake up, but it seems the wake up animation for the c.HP is different and makoto just goes over the other character as they are waking up, whiffing the tsurugi instead of hitting it. :\
All of that stuff still works, but most of it isn’t very practical in a real match. Just learn safe jumps and meaty NORMAL grabs to start, then pick up one or two Oroshi setups.
c.HP > empty jump > c.LP, throw, or Karakusa. DWU notice comes out during the jump, react with meaty s.HK for a gimmicky setup. IAT shenanigans only work off back throw because the opponent is laying down with feet AWAY from you. That leads to weird hitbox interactions. Also, DWU blows up that setup pretty bad.
So I shouldn’t be trying those KD set ups? I like the set up you just posted with reacting to DWU. If you don’t mind me asking, what methods do you use to try to figure out your own?
Thanks, I’ve been using dash > HP oroshi too much since it’s pretty simple, I’ll give that one a try :).
About DWU blowing up the backthrow setup, that’s likely, although still playing AE I can’t say I’ve suffered it yet. Anyway, you should have enough time to react and not jump, dash is 16f, and f.mp is 20 iirc?
Other people here will not agree with me, but most setups leading to meaty s.MPs, s.FPs, s.HKs with plus frames are a waste of time. You can’t OS for backdashes and you’re giving your opponent extra time to react for reversals and backdashes. Unless there’s some special circumstance, like how meaty c.MK beats Viper uppercut and avoids EX Seismo, you’re better off with safe jumps because 1. You avoid reversals, 2. Make the opponent block, 3. Set up throw and tick throw mix ups which can lead to punishing throw tech attempts with IAT, and 4. OS for backdash. The only time I don’t go for safe jumps is to jump over the opponent to either break my opponent’s charge or remove myself from the corner (thus putting my opponent in the corner).
To test DWU setups: record the dummy mashing LP+MP for 10 seconds.
If I remember right, the DWU notification doesn’t pop until t.MP comes out. Even if you don’t IAT, Makoto is at a weird distance where you have to walk toward the opponent to be point blank. I guess you can just wait a moment before IAT, but that might be too impractical to manually time.
ArF Kim Shiro vs Louffy
EDIT: Sorry, wrong Shiro- corrected now.
Is that really the Japanese Shiro ?
I believe his gamertag is shiro346.
Lol ArfKimshiro.
He’s a French player and iirc he was an Adon player,that’s why he plays like one who don’t know the matchup.
If you wanna know something specific about that matchup call @Liorfromspace, he’s waaaay better than this guy, he’s the best Makoto French player and he play against Luffy many times offline. Maybe he post a set against his Rose in the video section,give a look.
EDIT: here we go: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3CL8Dc4e2HY
Any pointers for fighting Hugo ? I’m still lost against him. Using stMP with buffer just isn’t good enough
Everytime you get a KD it’s really hard to bait anything because we can’t walk back, we have to backdash and that doesn’t work against ex Babackbreaker.
I just found a match of tetsumakoto against a Hugo and that’s pretty much the story of my games against that character so far
I’ve been having a hard time figuring out how far his hurtbox actually extends. That with the mix of c.lp, s.lp, and s.mp, Hugo’s have been giving me a little trouble. I know it’s a little crazy, but I find jumping actually a really good tool against Hugo. The reason being is that some of his pokes are really slow. I’ve hit a lot of Hugo’s recovery when using their s.mp. Once he starts looking to use the hp elbow and AA command throw, you have a little more time to get in with the normals you want i.e. c.hk, c.mp, s.mp.
I feel like he’s also pretty susceptible to pressure and especially safe jumps. When they try to guess between their options, it makes them hesitate. I don’t know all of his frame data but I’m guessing most of his non-ex command throws will get beat by something meaty. So I’ve been getting a lot of mileage out of scoring a knockdown with sweep or hk axe kick and going to town.
So far I’ve had enough success against Hugo by playing the matchup very similarly to how I approach Zangief, with the difference that it’s much safer to backdash after Hayate in order to keep your distance. I mostly try to counter poke him with s.MK and c.MP buffered into Hayate and c.HK for that stun and AA. In cases where you don’t have time to AA with c.HK, c.MK and s.MK works just fine and Hugo should have a difficult time getting in on you unless you’re too predictable with the counter pokes. Throw in some HK-tsurugis to throw him off and it should be fine. If he tries to abuse claps, focus should blow him up. I also use u2 to punish him for trying to build meter from far away, and since RF lets you combo into it I feel it’s a lot more useful than U1 in this matchup. The only thing I’ve had trouble with is his EX-run thingy that has armor, but it should be easy enough to bait. With that said you should be taking care against Hugo as with any grappler as their damage output is nasty so making just a single mistake can cost you a lot. 
The issue I have with safejumps against Hugo for me is that once he blocks it I have no idea what to do because of the 50/50 from EX SPD / EX Backbreaker.
I guess I should be trying to score a knockdown faster so he doesn’t have that much meter.
Good pointers from both of you, I’ll put that into practice.
Hey guys!
Once a Cody/Dudley player has me blocking w/ makoto I have no idea wtf to do.
When I attempt any offense between the endless pressure I fail and get blown up for it. The only thing that works is dashing away and I just end up trapped in a corner getting wrecked again.
Fighting these two characters seems impossible.
Granted I suck since I just started playing this game recently, but at least when I’m losing to other characters/players I have an opportunity to do some damage before losing the game.
Any basic advice on defense or when I can interrupt blockstrings while playing those two characters?
There is quite a bit of info on Dudley on this same page, since I recently had the same problem as you haha. I found that you can focus through his overhead on wakeup and dash > backthrow in case he likes using it as a meaty to start his combos (even if he prefectly meaties it, he has 15 recovery frames, and you have 1f for the armor, 15 for the dash if done properly, so you would be even, although that surely gets him off guard the first times).
Other than that yeah, if you have no meter his pressure can be quite annoying (and it doesn’t get all that better with meter either).
Try to keep in mind the distances and don’t press buttons mindlessly, many times I’ve found myself unable to stop a jump in elbow because I’m on recovery frames. He has the same problems as makoto on wake up though without meter, keep the pressure going when you have it, and his only invincible reversal (EX Jet Uppercut) can be safejumped. If he starts backdashing on wakeup you can OS sweep.
Mind you I’m mostly repeating other’s advices.
Unfortunately I don’t have much on Cody, just beware of his jump ins and neutral jumps on wake up, and prefer getting thrown to eating a full combo (i.e. be careful with crouch teching). I believe his wake up game is pretty weak too, so you can pressure him when he has no EX.
Edit: checking the wiki now, his non-EX zonk moves only have upper body inv, so try going for meaty low attacks and safejumps to make him think twice before throwing it out, that should open more possibilities.
You can’t instant focus dash, it takes a least 4 frames + 16frames - 1frame = 19 frames.
Oh, my bad. Thanks for the heads up, didn’t know about that.
Then worst case scenario he perfectly meaties it, and follows up with a perfectly timed c.LP (3f startup) in which case it takes 19f to connect (last Dart Shot frame + 15 recovery + 3f c.LP), which is the final Makoto dash frame, and you get hit.
Still you would only need 4 more frames for the throw to connect, so if you see him just walking waiting intuitively to throw the overhead when you wake up, he will most likely not get it perfectly meaty, and if he later doesn’t immediately get the c.LP, you may have enough window to connect the throw (at least that would explain why I managed to get away with it a couple of times against a Dudley that was otherwise demolishing me :p).
Anyway, it surely isn’t the safest way out, but it might be another possibility.
I’d rather block his overhead, then throw : it’s -1 on block. Mashing grab on your wakeup is quite bad imho. I cant find the thread, but someone made a deep analysis about this matchup.