Thanks for the help guys really appreciate it.
I remember talking about this in the past but I don’t know if the forums ate the post.
I’ve run into some really weird matches in the past where the Fei Long is intent on basing the game purely around chicken wing. They’ll cover ground with chicken wing so that they hit you with at least the end part of it to get in. I normally try to stuff it with st.mp but when I miss is where i get into trouble. They start a pure guessing game of whether they are going to push normals, uppercut, throw, etc. Once they get a knockdown, they start a 50/50 game where they are either going to meaty normal canceled to chicken wing, uppercut fadc, or just plain chicken wing again to keep you blocking.
Between blocking chicken wings, rekkas, and focus attacks, eventually I’m in the corner. No more back dashing to escape the pressure.
I think what gets me is the blocked chicken wing straight into the next chicken wing. I don’t know where their invincibility ends. Would fukiage be ideal here? I’m thinking my timing is off and I may just be not doing it in time. I’ve been hit with the next chicken wing.
Do you know if chicken wing gets beat clean from farther out? Sometimes my uppercut will come out and I still get kicked in the face.
It’s weird. Chicken wing kind of works like focus fishing. They were doing it and eventually getting a hit then converting it to rekkas. The invincibility frames was protecting them from a lot of the normals I would try to use to stop the next one. For some reason the invincibility frames were removed from the ultra frame data.
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Ultra_Street_Fighter_IV/Fei_Long#Frame_Data
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE/Fei_Long#Frame_Data
It ends up being such a goofy guessing game about what’s going to happen directly after a blocked chicken wing and what’s going to happen on my wake up.
if you’re having trouble with fei players using chicken wing to get in i would recommend hitting the training room man. at the ranges you’re explaining you should never lose to a chicken wing with a well placed lp/mp fukiage. it’s just a matter of reacting with fuki instead of a normal(which yes in the beginning is harder than it seems but just need practice). with his rekka nerf its a lot easier to stay outside of his lp rekka and inside his mp rekka ranges(which is where you want to be. this allows you to whiff punish lp rekkas, punish mp/hp rekkas, whiff punish normals and fuki/aa chicken wings/jump ins. easier said than done because of his walk speed i know but at that point it comes down to the footsies.
just had to check my notes but even if they are using heavy chicken wing to get in(which should be hit with a fuki) they are even on block. the next fastest is 14 frames and i believe they are airborne before its active(im not 100% sure on that) so your timing is probably way off. just fuki the initial one and all problems are eliminated lol.
Best feeling as a Makoto player is hitting people with legit AA Fukiage (not "I jumped late on your wakeup so I get hit by LP Fuki stuff, like legit ass AAing jumps). Probably the best non Ultra damage conversion in the whole game in an AA situation.
Well, beside the jMP into Ultra from Ryu, Gouken and Bison probably.
Juri has also jMP stHP > ex pinwheel which is good damage.
Haha, I figured I would. Hitting it normally as an AA isn’t too bad but those horizontal moves throw me off. Thanks.
Edit: Went to train up on uppercutting chicken wings. You’re right. It’s not too bad. I was able to react most times to at least trade and then do a mp hayate off the juggle to win the trade. At about half screen and farther, st.mp is the easy counter to chicken wings if you can’t trust your execution.
Abel’s mk and hk wheel kick are even easier to uppercut. The short and ex wheel kick are a little rough. All wheel kicks do tons of damage on counter hit so be careful. If you trade, you may need to use ex hayate to win the trade. Mp hayate might not be in range.
Oh
Yeah probably then.
Juri’s is pretty big too tho.
Okay, time for some Ultra match up issues
How do you deal with Evil ryu ?
I’m having a very hard time because of crMK xx Hadoken being a true blockstring.
His big damage makes it a little rough to make mistakes, but I play it similar to ryu. I try to get to about the range that he wants to do cr.mk and stay right outside. I like to hk axe kick it to make them think that it’s not free. I just block the cr.mk xx fireball when I need to and just try to figure out what they want to do based on what they do after.
I liked to stay just between the cr.mk range and where I could jump in on their fireballs. From there you can use a lot of your options: absorb a fireball and dash in, jump, axe kick their normals or the recovery of a fireball, fake with lk axe kick and counter their cr.mk , neutral jump, etc etc. I don’t mind giving back space to them once in awhile to change up the spacing again.
To be honest though, I don’t think the ones I’ve played were that amazing.
I abuse focus through between crMK xx hadoken against ryu pretty often, this not working against evil ryu kinda throw away my gameplan.
Staying outside of the range and predicting the crMK works but is a bit risky I found. He does so much damage when you guess wrong.
This player punishes a few MK axekick with DP too, which I haven’t found anyone really trying so far, and that’s not a good feeling.
On the other hand, I’m still getting mauled by Hugos.
His stMP feels impossible to counterpoke at times. Being on offense is scary because of basic EX BB / EX SPD 50/50 on his wakeup. 
One of the players in my local scene mains gief and since i play makoto now he doesn’t even go gief against me goes straight to hugo that match is sooooooooooo annoying. I know I have to learn that match up but idk if it’s really worth that up hill of a battle
Anybody would be kind enough to provide some pointers on the dudley MU? Tried looking around the forums and it was helpful, but I’d still appreciate any tip possible.
Just finished some matches against a good dudley (at least way better than me), and I had an awful time surviving his pressure. I did manage to get makoto’s game going sometimes and win a round (never a set though), but other than that he would eventually land one of his elbows or his overhead punch, and once I was knocked down there was no getting out :\
Karakusa helped but he neutral jumped quite a bit too when on the corner (tried fukiage on him later, but I was doing it on reversal when he was on the prime of his jump and didn’t connect, will have to practice delaying it…). If I pressed buttons, I would end up being frame trapped, or he would do those attacks in which dudley moves back for a bit and then punches, whiff punishing me. Is any of his stuff punishable other than EX MGB with U1?
Oh, also FADC grab on wake up sometimes helped against the meaty overheads, does makoto have enough frame advantage to pull that off consistently or was I just lucky?
Makoto vs. Dudley is 5/5. Use U1. Dudley can pick any ultra he prefers, as U1 can OS backdashes and U2 is good for AAs and combo finishes. Both characters are damage powerhouses that end rounds very quickly with correct reads. It is also easier for both of these characters to harass one another when the defender has no meter. Dudley has good pressure against meterless Makoto because there is no risk of getting snagged by an EX Karakusa. Similarly Makoto can safe jump against meterless Dudley since his non-EX Rocket Uppercuts have no invincibility (make sure to OS for backdash). Dudley may do higher damage off frame traps and light attacks, but Makoto has the option of dealing significant damage via Karakusa. Keep in mind Dudley has to play chicken against EX Karakusa every time he wants to apply pressure with any normal. Look out for throws. Dudley can severely punish a whiffed EX Karakusa, but you’re letting him win if you don’t take the occasional risk. If Dudley starts neutral jumping to bait the grab, wait and AA with MP Fukiage. Dudley’s toward j.HK can beat c.MK and LP Fukiage, but MP Fukiage has the tendency to win or trade, and Makoto wins the trade with the proper follow up. I believe s.MK also AAs Dudley’s j.HK. Makoto’s wake up backdash can actually be caught with a toward j.HK if the Dudley player makes the right read, but this can’t be done on reaction and can be AA’d with LP Fukiage if he guesses wrong. Focus dash and Karakusa through any obvious s.HP pokes in range (read) or s.MK/t.HP to whiff punish (react) the ones that miss. You can’t avoid a wake up EX Rocket Uppercut with backdash. Dudley’s backdash is susceptible to MK and HK Tsurugis. Punish EX MGB with s.MP x2 or reversal U1. EX Fukiage mix ups are very effective. s.LP AA sucks for this match. Karakusa combos: s.FP xx HC > s.MP x2 or s.MP x3.
That’s about all I can think of at the moment.
It’s a hard match up if you’re not at the same skill level than the other guy for sure, because this MU doesn’t forgive you making mistakes. But it doesn’t forgive him either.
It’s all about momentum, because both characters have insane damage and pressure and one or two sub par way to stop and reverse it with good reads.
His overhead is -1 on block, a throw after it would beat anything beside teching, short swing blow or a DP. But his DP doesn’t have any invincibility outside of EX so they almost never use it.
Thanks a lot, I’ll keep it all in mind!
Fei Long Match up. Little help?
I thought this dickhead was meant to be getting nerfed?
I’m losing to neutral jump, focus, rekkas, wake up chicken wing, post chicken wing mix up… just everything. Fuck this guy.
Edit: Watched this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLPYRHLl6Bo gonna try it out later
PSA: Everything you do against crouching Elena is a meaty.
Thanks for sharing!