【EX吊るし喉輪・唐草】の投げ間合いを弱と同じ程度にしました
it’s written in the “patchnote”
damn, that was obvious smdh! Okay Im heading over there. I’ll let you know if I have any specifics to explain about each match (prolly not)
Yeh have to agree 50 health you feel cause mashing is a hell lot better against her risk reward wise, look what happened with Seth getting 50 extra health he blows it up now. So that makes mak play more more 50 50 arguably more like 3s but the games are diff… Can’t mash dp crouch tech jab or back dash in 3s…
What they should’ve done is allow us to save our charges (someone mentioned this already). To add to that I think this is how it should work:
Keep the five levels of hayate charge and keep the ridiculous charge time on them. However, Hayate feinting an attack like st.HP should give you 1 full level of charge each time you use it instead of it being time based. Feinting over and over again on whiff would net you nothing. So, not only are we now able to ex hayate and knock them far away, we can store a hayate charge while they are recovering. Then we also get charges from using feints. I’d probably nerf either the damage/frame advantage/ and/or stun you get from the charge if they actually allowed this. What do you guys think?
Nah it would have to be one or the other. Just letting it charge off of a hit wouldn’t work. If she’s able to store charges, then she should be able to do it without doing it in a combo. IMO it wouldn’t have much effect considering what else we can do off of the knockdown after EX Hayate or Corner B&B.
The thing is, with our current knowledge, this move has a very high risk/reward ratio and that is not good given everything else we have to deal with. So lets talk about this for a sec.
What we already know about Hayate in AE
Spoiler
Frame Advantage:block/hit
KD=Knock Down
:lp:
Level 1- -8/0
Level 2- -7/1
Level 3- -6/2
Level 4- -5/KD
Level 5- -4/KD
:mp:
Level 1- -7/1
Level 2- -6/2
Level 3- -5/3
Level 4- -4-KD
Level 5- -3/KD
:hp:
Level 1- -6/2
Level 2- -5/3
Level 3- -4/4
Level 4- -3/KD
Level 5- -2/KD
AE 2012 Notes
Spoiler
• Hayate have improved properties on charge
• LP Lv3, Lv4 and MP Lv4 have further forward movement, all Lv4 strengths are -2 on guard
• All Lv5 strengths are armor break, further forward movement, from 170 to 190 damage
• Can tell when you reach Lv5 charge timing by Makoto’s voice
DREAMING… TRY TO KEEP UP!!!
Spoiler
Ok so here’s the deal… Lets say that capcom has gone out of their way to give us a charging propery that allows a continuation of charging by holding P after the feint. This is HIGHLY speculative, but fuck it lets discuss. Info that also may be taken away from the Notes:
• All Lv4 are -2 on Guard. Currently they are -5/-4/-3 for L/M/H. The only way they can do this (IMO) is if they increasethe overall stun duration. Currenty
-LP Hayate’s from level 1-5 on block is: 19/20/21/22/23
-LP Hayate’s from level 1-5 on hit is: 21/22/23/KD/KD
-MP Hayate’s from level 1-5 on block is: 18/19/20/21/22
-MP Hayate’s from level 1-5 on hit is: 22/23/24/KD/KD
-HP Hayate’s from level 1-5 on block is: 17/18/19/20/21
-HP Hayate’s from level 1-5 on hit is: 23/24/25/KD/KD
Advantage on block/hit is calculated using these numbers. And the only way that they can, say, make HP Hayate Level 4 -2 on block is if they decrease the stun duration of the entire move in its level 4 form from 20 to 19 since currently it is -3. So what does that mean for the other levels? Will capcom make Level3 and 4 have the same stun duration? My guess is NO. if they are going to reduce the stun duration by 1 frame, I propose that it will be done across the board. So all charged Hayate values would look more like this:
[spoiler=Prospective HP Hayate Stun Duration Values]
-2012 LP Hayate’s from level 1-5 on block is: 16/17/18/19/20
-2012 LP Hayate’s from level 1-5 on hit is: 18/19/20/KD/KD
:lp:
Level 1- -8/3
Level 2- -7/4
Level 3- -6/5
Level 4- -5/KD
Level 5- -4/KD
-2012 MP Hayate’s from level 1-5 on block is: 16/17/18/19/20
-2012 MP Hayate’s from level 1-5 on hit is: 20/21/22/KD/KD
:mp:
Level 1- -5/3
Level 2- -4/4
Level 3- -3/5
Level 4- -2/KD
Level 5- -1/KD
-2012 HP Hayate’s from level 1-5 on block is: 16/17/18/19/20
-2012 HP Hayate’s from level 1-5 on hit is: 22/23/24/KD/KD
:hp:
Level 1- -5/3
Level 2- -4/4
Level 3- -3/5
Level 4- -2/KD
Level 5- -1/KD
Now *that’s *more like it. If they made an across the board change on the DOWNLOW, just told the community shit is -2 now (of course omitting the actual changes were to stun duration not to the opposing characters block stun) AND we can maintain the charges during a combo that means that we can combo AFTER the charged Hayate if the charge times are shortened enough. AND since according to this proposed data she should so here’s what I’m thinking:
CRAZY ASS COMBO IF MY DREAMS COME TRUE
Spoiler
Jump forward :hp:, s.:hp:, HC (hold charge for level 3 HP Hayate), s.:lp:, s.:mp:, TC1, (release Lv3 HP Hayate, and since we are plus 5 on hit…), s.:lp:, s.:mp:, s.:mp:, EX Hayate, LP Fukiage, EX Tsurugi.
note- due to the distance traveled by the new Lv3 Hayates, this would be a corner to corner combo lmao
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH FUCK YOU FOR LAUGHING AT MY LIFE NERFHAHAHAHAHA FUCK YOU FOR LAUGHING AT EXKARAKUSA RANGE NERF HAHAHAHAHAHA MAKOTO FOR THE WIN
ahem…
Anyway, even if they kept the charged hayate at the same damge, this combo would be possible from anywhere on the screen! Check this out:
:p: It would do approximately 664 damage and 1118 stun for **2 meters **(and yes I scaled shit waaaaay down apropriately)
**:p: **It would only cost you 160 meter so about 64% of a bar, but would otherwise pay for itself.
:p: There would be more damaging combos available if use less moves! (but at the cost of the 2 frame links…)
:p: DID I MENTION THAT THE OPPONENT IS NOW STUNNED???
[/details]
So… Yeah… I don’t think Capcom would do that. IMO they just slightly made the charged hayate better. To make drastic changes like letting us store the charges would be a HUGE oversight on their part.
unless
Their reasoning for giving us this was to give us something in exchange for the health/Karakusa/damage nerfs. If they did indeed do something like this, man… it could get WAY more ugly than it is now. And its pretty bad for most of the cast now, honestly. Lets hope that my gut is wrong and that Capcom goes Radical on us and lets us store these hayates. These two small changes, stored Hayates and across the board Stun duration buff, could change our whole game forever. They were making a big deal out of it so hopefully it will actually be useful.
That crazy combo wouldn’t work though, because as a lv5 charged hayate it would knockdown according to what you wrote.
Although at the corner you should still be able to to fukiage and ex tsurugi which would still be very crazy.
no it would be a level 3 
and if the charge was too long then we could modify the combo…
Lol that’ll be a crazy killer combo if true, I doubt itll happen though :c
I dont think ive ever used a charge version of the move even lvl 2 (but that might just be me), but they keep buffing it so they must have some vision for it
You’ve probably used level 2 and not even realized it. 4F charge time to reach level 2 is short enough you could do it unintentionally due to lag. Beyond that though I doubt anyone uses anything beyond level 2. The jump from 2 to 3 is beyond stupid. 20F for 15dmg 15stun and 1F more blockstun.
using hayate just like zero charge bolt in MVC3
I haven’t played MvC3 yet (no xbawkz or ps3 any since roommate moved out.) but if Zero’s charge buster shot is anything like it was in TvC then Yes Plz.
Well it will never happen lol. But if it does you heard it here first lol
Just realized something possibly. MK Tsurugi might be buffed with the TC buff … assuming its applicable range is good against crouchers.
TC will do a little better than any follow-up outside of s.HP range if you don’t use EX Hayate + follow-ups, but maybe s.HP xx HC, TC xx Hayate will be a new standard. Some numbers!
I forgot to account for the new Fukiage damage but ultimately it means almost nothing
Spoiler
MK Tsurugi, s.HP xx HP Hayate: 268 damage, 436 stun.
MK Tsurugi, s.HP xx HC, TC xx MP Hayate: 307 damage, 522 stun. :amazed:
MK Tsurugi, s.HP xx EX Hayate: 276 damage, 460 stun.
MK Tsurugi, s.HP xx HC, TC xx EX Hayate: 319 damage, 540 stun.
MK Tsurugi, s.MP xx MP Hayate: 240 damage, 336 stun.
MK Tsurugi, TC xx MP Hayate: 250 damage, 354 stun.
Beyond that, it’s really only useful in s.HP xx HC combos. However, it adds a viable option in the form of stopping at LP Fukiage for really good damage, whereas before it was almost always wiser to go with EX Tsurugi!
MK Tsurugi, s.HP xx EX Hayate, LP Fukiage: 346 damage, 572 stun.
MK Tsurugi, s.HP xx HC, TC xx EX Hayate, LP Fukiage: 374 damage, 620 stun.
MK Tsurugi, s.HP xx EX Hayate, LP Fukiage, EX Tsurugi: 442 damage, 704 stun.
MK Tsurugi, s.HP xx HC, TC xx EX Hayate, LP Fukiage, EX Tsurugi: 433 damage, 708 stun.
So … with the new TC, we now have a safe hit-confirm at mid-range into Hayate, a new way to finally wreck FAs, a new buffer poke set to help against those pesky fast horizontal moves (Balrog can’t play armor games to get in!!! :smokin:), and Tsurugi got a situational, but useful damage and stun buff. And s.HK, one of her best normals that isn’t a buffer poke, got buffed.
Change the topic title to Makoto AE 2012: the buffage.
ok, about target combo:
- on opponent wakeup: it will be easier to OS anti-backdash. Just do stLK (onwakup) -> stMK. Since you can do it when whiffing stLK, it will work as anti-backdash. And you can, of course, confirm into (EX) hayate. Note that EX oroshi wont combo.
It will beat FAbackdash too. (FA on stLK, and get hit in the air by stMK).
Less effective than Sweep OS, but, at least, could work against bitches backdash (chunli, rose, etc).
-
didnt test yet (i almost 100% sure it doesnt work). But does anyone know if target combo has priority over special move and ultra?`to think about new option select :> (stLK -> 236+LP+HP+MK, for example…in guard, does makoto do target combo, or stLK -> EX hayate (i think she does this
) -
the bad thing is that stMK is -4 on guard (-3 with hayate cancel). And because you need to be close to hit with stLK, you’ll be punishable. (but honestly, i’ve never been punished with it. lol)
)Found another reason the hayate buff is pointless:
The entire time you are charging the hayate you are in a counter hittable state. I didn’t even think about this till today.
I personally think that she didn’t deserved to get nerfed. I started using her has my secondary (I dropped Guile) and I’m really having fun using her. Well the nerfs didn’t really hit her that badly. She still has her mix-ups and combo potential and her command grab is still a legit threat so I’m okay with everything.
dudley vs makoto in ae 2012 dudleys adv.
the nerfs she got with dmg/health isn’t that much of a deal. The nerf that helps alot is ex grab having less range
the st.hk buff is scary, won’t be throwing cr.mk as much depending on how the st.hk will be like.
All in all Now I think dudley will now have the adv again just like in ssf4.
dudley got st.hk back so we will definitely tear mak in half with counter hit set ups just like in ssf4 which made the mu alot easier for dudley. also better air to air moves. A maybe better U1 and better SSB that makoto struggles to deal with.
Yeah, dudleys adv 2012 55-45 or worse just cause of your health/dmg nerf and big ex grab nerf that shuts our mix up game down. but in ae 2012 not so much anymore since we can space overhead and low mix ups without being in range for ex grab to land.
but you guys might still have the better across the board better matchups then duds =(
Can someone please translate the relevant parts of these:
Pt 1:
http://www20.atwiki.jp/ssf4/pages/2451.html
Pt 2:
http://www20.atwiki.jp/ssf4/pages/2938.html
Google Translate is killing me right now. Bing translate too lol. And every other translate. Part 2 has Makoto info.
About Makoto (seems to be mostly whiners thinking she’s too strong…) - these are just suggestions/recommendations from players (scrubs?!)
#1. Health returned to 950. Observation: The concept of a one-chance mix up character with health is boring (?).
#2. Fukiage is too strong. Recommendation: Make the startup slower, while maintaining the upper body invincibility, or make it faster, but lose the invincibility.
#3. Make the hurt box of Tsurugi bigger.
#4. In return of making her health 950, give her Oroshi throw invincible.
Thanks so much man…
So…
Wow I don’t think i could agree with any of that stuff lol.
-there’s not that much of a difference between 1000 and 950. It just means we take 1 less chance per round which is nothing.
-Fukiage forces the opponent fo find another route to win. The concept that many characters can jump in/dive kick on makoto for free–especially on wake up–is ridiculous. But it is a necessary evil. She shouldn’t be on her back to begin with … and um… what invincibility? I’m assuming they mean the lack of hurtbox on the top half of her body? easy answer to that. STOP JUMPING. Maybe its just me…
-How does this change anything? no one is trying to trade with Tsurugi. I hardly ever trade with it. I think i’ve seen it a total of 5 or 6 timese since SUPER. Tsurugi hurts too much for people to be trading with it all day. I mean how big do they want to make the hurt box lol. and where are they going to put it? all they got to do is mash standing jab to rid themselves of IAT, and just block and punish NJ Tsurugi so I dont’ understand the complaining there…
-They dont’ want this. If they THOUGHT they had a problem with the other stuff, THIS will be a problem. Giving Makoto an actual viable wakup option against normal throws and SPD/TTs could be extremely dangerous for the rest of the cast.
Yeah none of these will break her or make her easier to play or beat, and I think #4 would break her since she would have a great answer to her only weakness: wake up. Who are these people talking? Seems like they are talking out of their asses…