EX tsurugi should be like 3S, insanely fast overhead
I actually want it to go back to it being the anti air killer it was in super.
Didn’t read all the comments, but from what I’ve read before on several sites people really need to stop crying lol. Play Makoto in Super and then come back =p (The 1% that did play her then) The Ex range/DMG/HP nerf isn’t game breaking, nor is it that bad at all. She still has the most HP for a female I believe so its fine, not to mention her core-style wasn’t affected at all (Unlike Akuma lol). I play Akuma/Seth too and Im struggling less with her than with them (/Learning Curve) (For me at least). She’s still extremely solid ! (<3)
Dude, most of us here actually played her in super so you’re preaching to the wrong audience.
950hp female chars:
Cammy
Juri
Rose
Sakura
Honestly that is part of the problem, they are trying to balance around a strong ultra 1. Balancing a momentum based character around an ability that requires you to be getting hit to be able to use it is poor design. Not only that but a lot of the reason Makoto works in 3S is the parry system makes up for her lack of defensive options, this gives her a small amount of extra options when on defense.
She needed that 50HP since she is probably one of the characters that relies the most on blocking since she can’t move out of range with her move speed, and she has no fast invincible moves or reversals.
Way to come in here and think everyone is complaining about nerfs.
From what I’ve seen most people are complaining (but also trying to find the good) about the Hayate buffs. I think most of us are perfectly fine with the nerfs because they don’t change her. Also, Makoto, Akuma and Seth are all difficult to consistently win with needing quite a bit of time to learn set ups and other specific things just to be decent.
Also, I played her in Super, made the switch to her from Abel before I knew about any changes being made in AE. One of the reasons most of us are fine with the nerfs is because we played her in Super.
Way harder to win with Akuma and Seth? Whatever you say dude.
so wait how is it easier to win with Makoto than Akuma or seth? Seth i can understand only from an HP standpoint. Otherwise, both have SRKs, Both can safely cross the screen, both have dive kicks, both have teleports, both have great close range normals and can create great block strings, um, fireballs? Akuma has a grab ultra trap, and an air armor break move, and a vortex. Seth has a ungrabable command grab thats damn near invincible in EX. Long arms? Seth got that. DID I MENTION VORTEX? Akuma all day. Please someone tell me dude aint serious. Please tell me he’s trollin. Fukouttahere.
Hey my bad everyone, didn’t mean to offend =D as I said ‘‘but from what I’ve read before on several sites’’ I didn’t say SRK specificially cause as I mentioned I didn’t read all the comments. On other similar sites everyone was complaining and saying they didn’t bother with her in Super and picked her up now.
Doesn’t really change my opinion on that the nerfs arent character-breaking or will make her drop much in tiers though. Im def. not a good Makoto but I haven’t had much trouble with her too. Most of the useful buffs they gave to her in AE are still there.
Well im struggling less at my LVL at least. Reason? mostly HP, and for me Akuma was more of a biach to pick up at first due to all the character specific stuff and setups + HP. Seth?..Just one wrong guess and I take 40% DMG lol. Both those chars have 150/200 less HP ATM so that’s why im not sweating her having 950. (Not saying they are similar or anything tho in options, theres obviously a reason they have less HP but still struggling more with them cause im so agressive) I love Makoto though and having seen some other nerfs, Im glad they didn’t butcher her at least imo.
@The mossad man: I never said Makoto was better than those characters, its just to me Makoto was easier to *pick up *and start doing decent with. I meant Learning curve I guess, not who’s better
She will drop, not because of her nerfs, but because of everyone elses buffs.
I mean daaaaaamn, Hakan was wrecking people on stream thanks to the oiled up at start of the match buff which is good, since at least he is using lubrication if he rapes you. 
I wanna see Makotos new HK though. I wanna see how low Makotos HK hits.
Kinda why Fuerte needs that health…
I don’t really see why they nerfed her health back.
I agree, there is no reason for Fuerte to have 900. 950 would fit him better.
Considering his low damage out put, yes.
If he still had his massive stun off RSF I’d understand. But it may go back to being ok now that Tortilla’s the best command grab in the game again.
Ono and them with the girls must have low health thing is still stupid. Mak’s quite gutsy.
SSF4AE:
EX karakusa (0.98 range, 5F)
LK karakusa (0.93 range, 7F)
SSF4AE 2012:
EX karakusa (0.93 range, 5F)
Dash -> EX/LK karakusa tests done on AE on walking back characters:
-
EX works, LK works:
Ryu, Ken, Makoto, Seth, Gen, Juri, Dhalsim, Sagat, Cody (note: walk speed increase in AE2012), Guy, Zangief, Hawk -
EX works, LK doesn’t work:
Honda, Ibuki, Dudley, Gouken, Gouki, Dan, Sakura, Oni, Yun, Abel, Viper, Dictator, Dee Jay, Hakan, Yang, E.Ryu, Guile, Blanka, Rufus, Boxer, Fei Long, Adon, Rose -
EX and LK don’t work:
Chunli, Cammy, Fuerte, Claw
#1 will still work in AE2012, since LK-karakusa works (so range is ok), and is slower than EX karakusa.
#2 EX works, but LK doesn’t… In AE2012, let’s hope EX can work, not because of range (since LK doesn’t), but because of its speed (5F)…
#3 Won’t work in AE2012
I’m fairly certain that 90% of these problems would disappear if capcom fixed the way that makoto’s “space” box works when dashing. Because as I’m sure you’ve noticed, no matter how many times you dash towards an opponent you always end up pushed back far enough to take a step or so towards them. Because the space your character takes up shifts forward when dashing due to makoto’s dashing animation, but when she returns to neutral state her space hitbox (the yellow boxes in her hitbox data) ends up moving back to the middle of her body instead of the front.
If you could dash and have Makoto end up as close as she can get to the opponent than her karakusa would work more since the opponent would have to backup farther to get out of range.
I think the charged hayate will be used for like punishing a heavy shoryuken or something … but still 80+ frames to lvl 5 hayate is pretty stupid … i dont get it … i really dont … and why the fuck did they nerf her health ?! whats the point in that ? What bothers me is that she has absolutely no wake up and as a cherry on top she has no health too , wtf ?!
EDIT: About the karakusa thing , I have never used dash karakusa just because I have the habbit of doing karakusa with HK lol , so that doesent bother me , what bothers me is the ex range nerf
Even if you were to start a hayate at the same exact frame that a really bad Ryu player randomly spammed a heavy SRK from half a screen away. You couldn’t charge it in time. The total for Ryu’s heavy SRK is 63frames from start to full recovery. All hayates take 64frames to reach level 5, and then there is the start up time upon releasing the button (8F for LP, 15F for MP and 20F for HP) The best you could get is a level 4 MP hayate which is 59frames from start to finish, and that only leaves a 4F window, and there is no indicator for when you hit level 4 so you’d have to just have frame perfect timing + allow for movement time to reach your target before they are able to block means that there is only like a 1F error allowance.
Instead of buffing the damage for charged hayates they should have actually made them useful.
reduce charge time across the board.
Level 2 = 4F (same as it currently is) Stun reduced from 135 to 130
Level 3 = 10F Stun reduced from 150 to 140
Level 4 = 16F (gains knockdown) Stun reduced from 165 to 150
Level 5 = 28F (Gains armor break) Stun reduced from 180 to 160
Leave the damage values the same (170damage for level 5 HP Hayate is really perfectly fine, Yun lunge punch has 150damage on HP. Guy’s shoulder is 160 for HP. And a level 5 HP Hayate would have a 48F startup since it takes 20F from releasing the button to become active still, so the 10extra damage is perfectly fair.
That is how I’d have done it, but I guess I don’t fully understand the intricacies of the game like Capcom so take it with a grain of salt.
In other words “level 5 hayate is useless” , thanks lol
Personally i would have nerfed her dmg & stun output and maybe slightly toned down a few of her moves instead of lowering her health back, oh well i guess they want to keep the 3s feel to her more (and its less work this way for capcom also lol)
I actually second this. But my thing is why did they cut her health? I mean what’s the reasoning behind it? I mean does 50 health really matter that much to capcom that they need to cut it? Is that what makes her win? No. Is it particularly more helpful than in Super? Nope. I mean I can’t really think of a reason to take that buff away when they thought it was necessary in the first place.
The only thing that I can think of is that having 1000 health made everyone a little more afraid of Makoto. They “hear” about her health going up and they think that it means a great deal when it comes to beating her. I mean 50 health may or may not matter in the actual game. I think they were trying to appease parts of the community that were saying that Makoto was slightly OP.
So Capcom says, “Ok we’ll take some health back that will make her easier to beat. Satisfied?” And the rest community points and laughs saying that Makoto got nerfed. Even our close knit community is divided on the issue. I think its just the “idea” of it. I mean really, is -10 damage to fuki going to stop Makoto from breaking someone’s face in the corner? Nope. So why do it? Just to appease the community. EX Karakusa? Please.
The nerfs were pointless IMO. And I agree wholeheartedly that if they wanted to change something for the better of our opponents they would’ve done a general damage nerf like AE Honda. But they didn’t. They took a couple of superficial nerfs and called it a day, hoping that the community is satisfied. Now they are happy with the nerfs. They think she’ll be easier to beat. Not understanding that Capcom is laughing in their faces because they didn’t really change anything at all. So Makoto will do just as much damage as before, plus a couple of tools. The more I think about this the more I’m comfortable with these changes.