Weird idea that would make makoto (imo) infinitely better and more varied:
They should just get the fuck rid of Tanden Renki (obv even at 13second duration almost no one will ever use it.) and put a nerfed version of Ultra 2 in its place. Make it use its non-cinematic versions damage (604545*60). Then create a NEW ultra 2 for makoto that is a command throw ultra based on Karakusa.
Suddenly her super meter is useful for more than just ex moves!
I was thinking yesterday how nice it would be to have an attack Super that did more than s.HP xx EX Hayate, LP Fukiage, EX Tsurugi. It’s a good Super for its ability to make c.MP xx MP Hayate lead into Ultra, and a mini-SSF4 Rose U2 when under pressure, but 9/10 even if you have Super ready, you get more damage out of the corner combo, or it’s straight up not worth the meter.
No changing that now, though. Capcom really wanted the SSF4 characters to have all three SAs. If I could change it, I’d do it like you, somewhat.
U1 = same.
U2 = Tanden Renki, complete with invincibility.
Super = Combo-able version of U2. Less damage than full U2, but Fukiage cancel-able and Hayate cancel-able.
I would love that so much :sad:
too bad
Looking at the alpha+beta changes Makoto is going to have a tough time. A lot of what was changed are pretty strong against her. Lots of characters got major buffs to moves when on counterhit (something you see happen a lot even to top level makotos thanks to long startups.) A lot of normals getting better frame advantage on block, meaning even less opportunities to try and get out of being pressured. And a lot of buffs to SRKs/Reversals damage.
I think she is going to be worse off than we might expect, still better than super but yeah… basically she is a one shot deal in 2012. If you lose momentum you lose the match.
You’re on crack.
But not as much crack as the guy who wanted ex hayate to go through fireballs, at least.
agreed. Mak will still be an offensive MACHINE regardless of all the rage against the. We will continue to play smarter, and these buffs to other characters (as well as the nerfs to our bad MUs) will keep her comfortably in A tier. I say all MUs stay the same except for the top 5 (Twins, Fei, Akuma, Viper) since they were nerfed. just add +1 to all of those MUs except Fei which will probably be +.5. i don’t know i just can’t see it any other way.
Oh and with these new crossups/unblockables??? BBBBBRRRRRUUUUTTTAAAALLLLLOLOLOLOLOL. These other characters are going to have some serious problems with her in 2012…
Even though there is the hopeful “what if” of an abare super her current super really is a rare but nice tool. I haven’t played in forever but tonight with a pixel got the c.mp buffered hayate to time of the month to ultra against an e.Ryu who gave me super by knocking the crap out of me. Feels good man
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Same here ROFL! i needed that omg!! hahahahaha you need an award for that troll vryu… priceless 
I like Makoto’s super as it is. Yeah I hardly ever use it and having a super version of her U2 would be nice, but nobody expects the invincibility frames on Makoto’s super and it’s pretty dope to land a ghetto parry into a karakusa.
Abel matchup shifted from slightly in Makoto’s favor to slightly in Abel’s favor thanks to damage buffs + improved c.HP and Makoto’s reduced health.
Balrog has always been a bitch to play against thanks to that 2.5-3F jab but now his headbutt now does 20/40/50 more damage and he can combo after his overhead to make your blocking for an opening less safe.
Guile is going to shift into a difficult matchup I think. More damage on flash kick, better damage distribution on sonic hurricane not counterhitable for sonic boom.
Cody is going to suck, plain and simple. I will not be looking forward to this.
Guy and Ibuki are going to be tougher but I don’t know their matchs terrible well as it is.
Zangief I dunno what to make of his changes, but I know that noone is looking forward to eating his standing hp knockdown regardless of what character you play.
Makoto with momentum is still a thing to be feared and will keep her a strong character. But I stand by my belief that if she loses momentum in a fight she is not only going to have a hard time getting it back but a hard time just reseting everything to neutral.
As a Makoto player since Super I’m used to doing more with fewer tools. I’m sure we’ll get by.
For sure, and as I said she’ll be a solid char still and nowhere NEAR super’s level. But I think people might be overestimating her options after this. I think she is going to move down to mid-B around where chars like Ibuki and Juri are currently in AE. Good enough to be viable in tournaments but only for people who specialize in that character.
You fail to mention the several bad matches that are obviously gonna be better for her in 2012, and several of the matchups you describe aren’t even going to get that much harder for her, if at all. Like I don’t know what Cody got that’s gonna make that match harder for Makoto. FADCable bad spray? That’s kinda cool to have, but it’s not gonna be incredibly useful. And Rog’s gonna be noticeably worse for her? She doesn’t do that badly against him as-is, and a little more damage on his headbutt isn’t gonna change that much.
Fei is basically going to stay the same as he currently is for her. Yun/Yang will be a bit easier for sure but they will still probably be not in makotos favor or even 5-5. Everyone else is either getting worse or staying the same.
For cody it is the faster walk speed and the improved MK Ruffian as well as improved EX Zonk.
For rog the 40dmg adds up quite quickly. And the overhead change affects his BnB which will add around an extra 20dmg to Makoto on hit.
Last I checked rog was what. 5-5? If he gets a major damage boost and an improved BnB combo and makoto loses 50HP and a small amount of damage on her BnB fukiage combos I don’t see how this hasn’t shifted in rog’s favor.
You can’t assume that Makoto is ALWAYS going to be the one putting the opponent in block stun, or on the offensive. Even at the highest eschelons of gameplay you don’t see that. She will have times she is working to get in on the opponent, or on the defensive herself.
From a purely offense oriented standpoint Makoto has barely changed.
Thing is, while most of what you say is true, you’re waaaay overestimating how much these things are gonna change those matchups. Maybe if you weren’t literally like the only person, on this forum and off, that I’ve seen pissing and moaning as much about Makoto’s changes (who actually plays the character), I’d be more inclined to be more doom and gloom about Makoto in 2012. If anything, I’ve seen more people crying that she didn’t get more nerfs than she did.
Things are gonna change for her for sure, in good ways and in bad, and while it’s possible that she won’t be quite as high on the ol’ tier list as she is now, she’s not gonna drop down that much. Hell, considering a few of her buffs and a few other things, I might end up prefering 2012 Makoto to AE Makoto.
More damage on Rogs BnB combined with Makotos lowered health may just make a bit more difference than you think. But whatever, I don’t care. I’ll just play the match.
FFSF (Fierce Feint Short Forward) is going to be sick. TC buff in general will help her punish far blocked moves better (much better than s.LK xx LP Hayate, now we have at worst s.LK, s.MK xx MP Hayate).
lmao that would be cheap as sheet
The dood’s name was Zuranthus. He split as soon as he read the Alpha changes and saw that she was getting “nerfs”. I think the only reason I remembered his name is not because he was some awesome player, but because his whining was at level none of us could touch. Yes, he was the Kuroda of whiners.
On another note, I was playing around with the TC in preparation for the v2012 and I was surprised how often that shit connected. It also stuffed FA whores left right and center. Why the FUCK was I not using this more? Can’t wait to add (EX)Hayate to the mix.
I wouldn’t mind projectile invincibility on STARTUP for EX Hayate but for the active part? fffuuu that would be OP they’d have to slow down her movement speed by a huge factor if they wanted to make it even remotely fair or make it massively unsafe on block.
And projectile invincible just on startup would be awkward to use so yeah, leave it as is.
Personally the only things I want are a better crossup hitbox on j.mk and a smaller window of vunerability on EX oroshi. I think being able to throw the move is a fairly legit way to counter it given how slow the move is, it shouldn’t be stuffed so easily before becoming active. 6F is a huge window for it to get counterhit. I don’t think it should invincible until active but it should be like 3F so it is a little harder to stuff just by mashing lights.