Maki: Cvs 2 Rebirth. (AKA "The Sweet Ninja" )

Im glad the thread is back on track…

Personally, I dont think baiting jumps to set up an airthrow is worth it for Maki. Probably better off baiting a jump to punish it with her normal anit-airs as this sets up most of her useful mixups.

But anyway>>

Possible options to bait a jump:

  • run (either direction)… stop instantly.
  • run, hk instantly.
  • intentionally whiff a lvl1 720.
  • whiff cr.hk from far distance
  • whiff RCd qcf+p
  • Jump straight up??
  • jump back, lk wall dive. (this is probably the best option)

Thats all I can think of right now.

i think the best one i think is the first option, where you use the qcf/b run moves, then cancel them right before you get to them. they usually either sweep or do an uppercut move. setting them up for stuff

coldsnap: well, i agree with the jump baits/air throw isn’t maki best game…in fact…it’s not a very good game…

but…
1-i wanted to get the thread back on maki strat/combo discussion and i couldn’t think of anything else
2-it be nice if you kno more how ur opponent reacts towards maki’s game…(i.e. what they do after you do certain things)
3-alway nice to have an additional arsenal at ur disposal…:slight_smile:

back to maki…

air throw setup again:

-half screen away c.mp
…this move looks stupid to me…and if you’re doing this from half screen away…u’re opponent might be like “wtf…you taunting me bitch?” and jump in to attack you

-small jump straight up may work…

other maki stuff:

when someone jumps in, after you anti air them(from the ground) immediately do run foward,HK(i think this was mentioned before, but this is a good tactics)

if they are shoto character or anyone with a good DP move…when they catch on to ur tactic…after you do antiair, mix up with regular run, stop and block and thye may whiff a DP wear you can follow them in the air and do an AIR throw!! yay…or just let them land and do fierce xx qcf+p which does more damage than an air throw :frowning:

Well, I cant really talk about her air throw, I’ve only landed it once… ever! lol

I agree with what VasAZNion said about run + HK after a non-knockdown anti-air, it works, especially against people who havent wised up yet. And then of course move onto NOT doing the HK and waiting for the uppercut or whatever.

Unfortunately, I think this kind of tactic becomes less and less effective the higher level you play against because Maki’s run+mk/hk is pretty easy to counter.

The opponent just needs to block low to block a potential slide. A hk hop and a run+stop are both easily blocked, avoided, or countered on reaction. Actually, if the opponent is C Groove, the run+hk can always be air-blocked honda head butt style… unfortunately this leaves Maki open for practically everything :frowning:

As u say Vas, Maki really counts on her long supply of ‘additional arsenal’ to compete!

I actually land enough of Maki’s air grabs to use them as part of my ground-to-air game. I haven’t gotten to the point where I can bust it out on reaction to counter something, but it works well enough if you can guess correctly when/where your opponent is likely to jump.

There are just certain moments in a match when you have a hella good feeling that he/she is gonna try to jump at you with something…
It’s during those times I’ll bust out a sj.hcf.p to try to grab them out of the air…

It doesn’t work ALL the time, but it works a lot (IF you have a pretty good idea of when a jump is likely to occur).
The reason why I superjump when doing it is because 1) the sj seems to make the jump come up faster, and 2) the sj can get you to travel almost the entire distance of the screen.
The added distance is not good because it gives you more range for the grab, but good because it allows you to be further away from your opponent if the grab whiffs…
I’m assuming you use this tactic when you and your opponent are NOT a full screen distance apart, because then you’ll most likely land right next to him on a whiff and be caught up in a 50-50 mind game when you land (that is, if he/she doesn’t punish you on reaction).
You can still use this tactic a full-screen apart because most people don’t usually think quickly enough to punish you, but it’s a lot riskier than using it at a closer range.
I normally go straight for a grab after I whiff and land close, but it’s really upto you…
Take your time to develop an even better strategy for post-whiffs. I would do so, but the situation doesn’t come up enough for me to get use to it.

Another important thing to note with this strategy is that you have to do the hcf.p IMMEDIATELY after you jump. I’ve found that doing it like this works best because the grab is activated the instant you get off the ground, but the superjump propells you far enough so that you get solid range before the hit-frames of the grab expires. Now since I don’t know the exact data of the frames and stuff, it might all be BS… However, it works well judging from my past experiences.

This method is good against people who go for super fast air-to-air aa’s (like Blanka’s j.fp or Bison’s j.mp).
It’s also good against scrubs who don’t know better and just do a lot of bad jumps…

This is true to a certain extent, but you shouldn’t just disregard part of her arsenal even in high-level play…
In theory, yeah, her run.mk/hk is easy to defend against, but players (even some of the better players) are still human and will fail to punish you for the move from time to time. Hell, you’ll even LAND the move every so often!

It really all depends on the time/situation for when a seemingly crappy move will be of good use.

I use full-screen run.mk sparingly because it’s easily blocked and punished, but I’ll still throw it out here and there when I’m pretty sure it’ll catch the other person off guard.
Don’t throw it out randomly and expect to hit someone with it. Even if you do get lucky from time to time, don’t get use to relying on it as part of your ground game.
It has other uses…

run.hk is a big part of my pressure game and really helps to pin your opponent down when he/she is too focused on blocking to punish you for the move. If you’ve developed a solid rush-down game with Maki (not rushdown full-time, but you know when AND how to rushdown when needed), then this move really comes in handy.

It’s not that good to just run up to someone and try the mk/hk mixup…
Try to work these two moves into your game without solely relying on the fact that one hits low and the other hits high.
Think of the priority/range/recovery/etc of each move and then you’ll be more likely to find better uses for them.

i always though the run/HK was practically safe if blocked…
if not…hmm…this may screw up my pressure game…

anyways, my main pressure string, when i finally get close is, c.short,c.short, c.mk, s.mk, run/hk

with variations of that since they won’t be in block stun the whole time and can DP out of it if timed right

but usually after my s.mk, people try to hit me with a long range sweep where my run/hk will hop over and just hit them

iKlEiTlH:i like the air throw explanation you give…i agree about how you feel you know your opponent is going to jump so you attempt the air throw,
…what i wanted to discuss is, how to get to the point where you can feel it…like specifically after certain things you do, what are ur options and what do the opponent most commonly do…so that we kno when the “feeling” is going to happen :stuck_out_tongue:
basically a setup into a setup…heh…

side note about previously mentioned maki 720 setups:
when they are near the corner, and you knock them down

i just want to say if you have lvl 3 super ready, it must such a painful position for your oppponent…
this gives you 2 awesome options…

1-jump over, and easily cross them up with mk(since ur near corner it may be easier) and do s.mk or c.mk into kick super
2-jump over, grab the wall(LK), drop and 720 when you land(as they wake up too)

i should emphasize though, that doing the cross up mk more often is better since the 720 setup can be DP’ed badly…and doin the cross up mk to snuff them often will teach them to block more which sets up better for ur 720super…

EDIT:uhh…if you see any error in spelling or grammar…just try to figure out what i was trying to say :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m a little surprised that this discussion has gone on for this long and no one has made a mention of Maki’s roll. Yes, it’s a tick shorter than everyone else’s, but rolls make for great 720 buffers. The natural reaction to a roll is to either throw if it’s a close roll or stick out jabs and shorts if it’s a far one. With a shorter (quicker) roll, Maki can get the throw distance a bit messed up, and get a free super.

A another nice property of the her air throw is that a hand gets stuck out, and to someone not familiar with it, this can look like an attempt an attack. People with counters/super counters (Hibiki, Yamazaki, Todo) might try them, or someone using S-Groove might dodge, and then when you land you have a fool staring right at you, waiting for a throw or big money super. You can also go straight to a crouch block or throw when you land, that is, like you did an empty jump. This is a property that people with regular air throws don’t have, and it’s nice to know.

A nice move to start a match is to immediately into a running slide (qcf+K->MK), but if someone anticipates this, you’re screwed. A better move would be to go immediately into a backwards run, then immediately back into a forwards run, then slide. The backwards run might bait a fireball character into throwing one out (expecting you to jump back into it), but by the time you come back and slide, you’ll be right underneath it and nail him. If they use ground projectilies, then you’ll obviously want to jump instead of slide.

That down+MP in the air command move is pretty damn handy from going from a cross-up depth jump to a regular jump. If you’ve got someone blocking for their lives, a cross-up jump in will have them blocking the wrong way if you plop down on top of them with d+strong in the air. It makes for great uppercut bait when used in small jumps, too.

The nice thing about Maki’s supers is that the kick and punch ones might hit your opponent even if they block them. The last hit of the kick super is an overhead (hits crouch blockers), and the last hit of the punch super starts low (hits high blockers). I’ve found it’s about 50/50 for either of these to land (even aginst the same character), and confuses your opponent as to which way they should block, against which super and which normal moves, as is the way of Maki.

Finally, a nice thing about the kick super is that you control when it comes out. If you’re way ahead in a fight, or you’re almost out of K-Groove Rage and are dead in a round anyway, you might want to try to just let the kick super out without comboing it. Your opponent will stand and block, ready to take chip damage. Instead of just immediately hitting a kick again, hesitate a moment. The other guy will think that the super is a bust, and try for an attack or throw. If you can time it just right (and have a bit of luck), hitting kick and releasing the super at the right time will give the other guy a face full of Maki’s boot. If you wait too long or get hit with some other quick move, you would have probably lost the round anyway (with no K meter, especially), if he blocks it, you might get a free hit on the overhead, and if you land it, you can laugh at the guy you just gave 60%+ damage in one shot. This is actually not all that out of the question to do, as I’ve done it enough times for it to be useful.

Yeah is me… randomally I can post anything… I think I was banned? That’s Srk for ya…:frowning:
Back to business. Windyman Roll 720 is good blah blah blah when used with commen sence. But roll Any thing dosent seem to be that good. But I land it alot. ON the PuNCH SUPER thinge… It never hit low. IF Level one is blocked the last hit wont combo. You can get DP /supered before the last hit. Maby they attack too early and get kicked?
Also you should only use Level 3 kick super in a combo/or to counter like( sagat c.mk to tiger shot then kick super) poke fireball strings. After the “chi” goes away you loose your INvinsiablity blah blah blah. You will get dp/supered. IF their low on life… and your playing K groove… yeah just chip’ em.
I know what you mean with the level 3… last hit over head.
Alot of player’s forget, or just dont know.:slight_smile:

No defence Nice sig Windy:)

Bump that!

Happy New Year “Maki Player’s”… You guy’s should check out the Maki vid in “Fighting game dis”. Azn-Anjel’s Production.com
It’s really cool.

No D later…

Actually, that video didn’t really help me, since just about everything in the mixups included dash grooves instead of run grooves.

I thought they were all command runs, oh well.

I thought the mixups were a bit obvious, nothing really new, except maybe that hop-kick gets those wide characters on the far shoulder.

Man, I hate run-stopping, it makes me so nervous, I don’t have the guts to do it.

In general at least 2 of the throw setups in that guys vids are a bit far fetched. But that’s alright :slight_smile:

I thought the A groove section was way cool.:slight_smile:
Yeah but some of the setups(“C groove guard break comination”) was not practical at all. Nice though… I wish I had the Equipment to but out my own vid.

I got a New Job so I probally wont be on srk that much…
But if you guys got “anything” on Maki, just post so we can get the “ball rolling” again.:smiley:

But I do have to comment on Maki’s air throw/hcf+p.
The more I use it the better results I am getting. I seem’s to completely grab the characters out of their jumping normals.
Its also way too good on C groovers who love to air block.
Its weird that you have to imput a command for an air throw.
Try it out In match play.

Ps Running stop with Maki does make me :sweat: lolz

No D

The worst thing that could happen is that your opponent will hit you or throw you out of the run, which is what will happen if you miss an attack from the run. Unless they have the guts to super you out of it (which you should have them second-guessing to do since you can hide the command run with a regular, easy to stop-and-block run), they’ll be turtling low to cover the slide, and looking for the jump to cover the overhead. 9 out of 10 times someone who is looking for either of those two will never have the reflexes to tech out of a throw after you stop, and if you pull off the 720 super, there’s nothing they can do.

Stopping (and reversing) your run is necessary to make the slide and the overhead easier to connect, since that’s one more thing the other guy needs to worry about.

This is why I think Maki works much better in running grooves (which the video really didn’t show). Instead of doing the command run, you can do a regular run which is impossible to tell apart from a command run to the untrained eye.

If you regular run up to them, return the stick to neutral, which will start the skidding frames. These can be cancelled into anything, just like the run, so cancel them into a small jump. This will actually do two things for you: a) Your opponent sees run, then sees jump, so they might assume the jump is a super jump, and b) depending on where you do it, you can land in front of or behind someone, with trip guard still intact. Given these two facts, someone who doesn’t realize that your small jump is another attempt at an overhead will stand straight up as you land, making for a safe landing and opportunity. Someone who reads the jump might whiff something really high giving you all the fixin’s when they land. Again, the only risk here is if someone can read exactly what you’re doing.

Again, throw in the reverse command runs with the forward run slides, overheads and stops to really give whomever is on the other side a hard time. Again, the worst that can happen is that you get punished for it, which is exactly what happens when you get whatever you were trying to get in blocked.

It is weird, and you can do a lot more with it then throw people out of the air with it. I’ve done this in competition numerous times.

Let’s say you’ve got someone with a lot of super meter who likes to start their supers with a low hit to guarantee a connection (Chun Li, for example), or just generally someone with a good sweep. Remember that when you jump and attack in the air, you lose the ability to go straight into a crouch block (trip guard) when you land. However, the properties of Maki’s command air throw share those of a throw, not an attack! This means you’re free to do this in the air, and still have all the properties of an empty jump when you land.

Of course, the Chun Li that’s waiting for you at the end of your jump sees a hand sticking out, which makes them think it’s a horribly botched attack. That makes them think that your trip guard is gone. When you land (just outside of throw range, obviously), they’ll hit you low and go right into a super.

Oops! You blocked it? Impossible! Not if you’re using Maki, Queen of Deception.

This is also quite handy when you’re jumping in against P-Groove (and K-Groove, to a lesser degree). If you do the command on the way down from a jump, the hand will stick out at just the right moment for someone to try and parry it, but since it’s not an attack, nothing will happen. The fact that the parry doesn’t happen will surprise your opponent for plenty of time as you land, giving you time to get in a low hit into a combo or super (low, because by the time someone realizes there isn’t a parry, you’ll be on the ground and in some attack frames), or a throw if you want to be safe.

Also about her air throw, it seems to out-prioritize regular air throws for everyone else, too, so if you’re up against people that like to air throw, this move will have them pissed off in no time. Of course, you could always 720 them.

bump lol

I didn’t believe it when I did it, but Maki can slide underneath low Sagat Tiger Shots. Even when they’re that low to the ground, she’ll slip right underneath them and nail the target.

I’ve also discovered a low-hitting combo for her as well. In close, do:

c.jab, c.short XX qcf+k, forward

This works because by the time you’ve inputted the qcf for the command run, letting go of short usually make the command go, since Maki’s Negative Edge seems to be a little more sensitive for some reason. Make sure the short comes out before you go in for the dive or else it won’t link. Mash on forward to get the slide out instantly, and if you time everything right, it will combo.

If you want to mix it up, mash on roundhouse instead for a blazing quick overhead. It doesn’t combo, but since the slide is somewhat difficult to pull off consistently, it’s a somewhat safer and more deceptive option. It would also be neat if you stopped immediately and threw, or tried to go for the combo again.

I guess this is a damn old post but I had to reply. First of all, it’s pretty easy to connect the level 3 off of duck short, all you have to do is roll your fingers in sequence on all three kicks just before the spark ends. This will usually get the super to activate instantly. And btw you can actually combo a level 2 kick super off of short; it’s damn hard but it is doable. That being said, when I connect the super it’s usually off the qcb lp move. Say you land a far(low to the ground) jump Roundhouse you can still connect with Stand Fierce and easily buffer into lvl 3 kick super. The only little quirk about this is that you might need to wait a split second before activating the actual super to get full hits, but considering the awesome stun on far stand fierce it’s not that hard. If you get a deeper jump in you can link stand fierce off a cr strong into the super for even more damage.

Seriously, her far stand fierce is totally underrated. It has killer damage, speed, range, stun, comboability(seems like there is a ridiculously large buffer window). It can also be used as a long range anti air if your opponent whiffs an attack in the air; no tripguard=free damage. The only flaw it might have is the lag at the end, but it should only be used for retaliation and combo purposes so that should only be an issue in a select few instances (sonic hurricane and Gigaton Blow come to mind but those moves are ridiculous).

And I also have to disagree with Mummy about another one of his posts regarding the 720. Considering maki’s mobility compared to Zangief’s it’s pretty obvious that hers should be much easier to land. I mean come on she coasts across the whole screen in 1 super jump so that’s gotta count for something(and I’m also glossing over her many many many setups which Zangief simply doesn’t have in this game). It’s not always about the range of the throw itself.

That’s cool - I couldn’t get it to connect consistently from the range that I was doing it at, because I was trying to cross up mk -> stand lp, mp chain -> c.lk XX super. At that range, it didn’t connect consistently. Up close I had no problem.

But I really don’t know why you’d stand fierce when you could stand forward. Like there’s really no point at all. Stand forward does everything stand fierce does and it’s better, outside of a few points of damage. The lag on it is horrible compared to stand forward.

Actually I’m pretty sure you can do a number of things. Like say, Tiger Knee… Yamazaki’s stand roundhouse… Activate CUSTOM… anyone with a good sweep… anyone with range on a DP (fierce Tiger Uppercut, Shadow Blade, Sak’s DP…).

Um. No.

The range on her 720 sucks ASS. Okay. If I step slightly back it usually whiffs. Zangief has double the range and instant startup.

The major issue is Maki getting in on the opponent. What real tools does she have to compete against top tiers and thier pokes to consistently get in and make sure she’s got a setup for a 720? I don’t even worry about it. It’s FAR more realistic to go for stand mk XX kick super on reaction. That’s WAY better. The 720 is a nice super, but it’s gimmicky. Kick super is concrete right behind her best poke and does the most damage out of all of her supers.

It is NOT obvious that she has an easier time landing a 720. Otherwise, she’d be landing 720’s all damn day and she doesn’t. In 20 matches in a row when I played her, I landed the 720 three times and I did some tricky, gimmicky shit to land them. I landed stand mk XX kick super at least double that, if not more. And these are matches that I had won, and couple of them winning with just my first R1 and then Maki at R1 (admittedly, Kyo did alot of hard work though).

Her 720 does have poor range, but realize this is by design because she’s a small character compared to Zangief and Raiden. You’re not going to use her 720 in the same way as those two, however.

The big difference here is how ungodly fast Maki is. Everytime you knock someone down, there’s a chance to use it. Everytime you do the command run after a few setups, there’s a chance to use it. Everytime someone jumps there’s a chance to jump in the air to meet them and use it. Hell, you can use it for a jump-in move from time to time too. The throw super is nice because it’s free damage if the other guy thinks you’re just going to throw out something blockable.

Beating top tier pokes is easier than you believe it to be. Most good pokes require someone to be crouching, which makes for great run-n-jump-n-grab situations. Sagat’s c.strong, for instance. If he sees you (command) running up to him, a strong will usually stop you in your tracks and be relatively safe for him. However, all you need to do is hop over it, and hit him while he recovers. The trick is to train them to be very careful about throwing out moves when you’re charging them down, which will set you up for the command run into 720 super, because if the poker expects you to hop at him again, he’ll usually wait to see what you do, but by the time you’ve stopped right in front of them, they won’t react soon enough to escape the throw.

You’re not supposed to try it all day. There’s a reason why her kick super does so much damage. You’re supposed to use it primarily. The idea is, when your opponent starts to get worried about getting hit by the linkers for the kick/punch supers, they’ll start to turtle, which normally makes it a little harder to land something on them. However, all you need to do is jump/cmd run over to them and send them bouncing off the walls. The 720 is there as a plan B or a quick strike. It shouldn’t be used as your primary super, because it doesn’t do the big damage that the kick one does.

Dude, all you did was give a bunch of theory fighter. If they do this then you can do… If you did this it might give a chance for…

Yo, not in real life. In real life, you stay out of c.fierce range walking in and out trying to punish and do your best not to get crossed up. Give me a poke she has that outright beats out:

Sagat’s c.fierce
Blanka’s c. forward, c.fierce
Cammy’s low forward, stand fierce, stand roundhouse

You have to get around these to land a 720. This doesn’t happen very often. You seriously do some gimmicky ass shit to land it. It’s never consistent when you land it, which only makes it useful as a mind game most of the time. It’s more practical to stuff an mk in a hole and XX death.

Whatever floats your boat man.