Play around with the range you hit st.hp xx SC with. I’ve spaced it such that the 3 frame normal mashers whiff and I’ll get a whiff punish occasionally. There’s no point doing it point blank unless you know its going to hit.
Which will get counterhit by nearly anything because s.HP->SC->c.lp is -2 and your jab is 4 frames.
So what you’re saying is you’re gimmicking out people that don’t know that you’re minus and they can just hit a button to beat literally every single one of your options.
Do ya’ll not understand here? There’s no mix up. You’re walking up to a dude, putting yourself at minus frames, and then hoping they decide not to do anything for some reason, even though the standing heavy punch animation takes forever and is easy to react to.
You’re not conditioning anyone to block because they don’t have to block because you’re the one at a disadvantage after you do this. They should be conditioning you.
Is half this thread literally theory crafting block strings that start off -2? What is going on?
3 frame jab mashers? If you’re Vega and I’m Ryu and I press crouching medium punch, and you press jab, or command throw, or literally anything I beat you. :o
@Mnszyk I agree, after lk.ct on hit you do have a frame trap to play with. If they try to push any button they lose. Otherwise everything is not safe…
You missed the point. After they block the st.hp xx SC you wait for them to whiff something. Do it at a range so that their button doesn’t reach you =P. I use this to set up whiff punishes. Depends on the button though.
No sure if this is known tech, but I made a short tutorial of changing vega’s ex.fba descent speed. It seems for ex.fba -> punch the player can press the punch anytime then Vega will adjust his walldive-slash startup frames all the way to touching the opponent. This speeds up his drop speed substantially.
Calm down bro, I agree with you tho lol…
I complained about this a few times because I don’t really believe in the SC on block. The argument is, that if you do st.hp -> lp ASE enough times, they won’t be so quick to press a button expecting the SC. The problem tho, that Mnszyk has pointed out, is that st.Hp -> lp ASE is a true blockstring, so they can’t mash out of it. Now, This upsets me very much, and the only thing that we could hope for is that people with 3 frame standing normals stand up and try to spam out, not knowing that it is impossible to spam out anyway.
Part of me even wants to delete this post after you guys have read it lol, because this is really unfortunate information. Also, @jlipassassin, I am sorry to say, that I do not see the usefulness of trying to space out st.HP at a distance where someone will whiff a jab on block after SC, because I just went to the lab with ken, and after the SC the ken dummy pretty much forces me to block no matter how far I am. If you did it, it must literally be less than a grain of salt, the max distance that you could possibly have st.HP connect on guard and have someone whiff a jab once you do SC(or it wasn’t a jab).
It is not reliable at all. Furthermore, the only times he whiffed a jab was when I didn’t do the SC. Doing it negates the full guard pushback that you would get from a raw st.HP, putting you in range to be jabbed.
Now maybe for some other chars, their jabs are shorter than kens? but I doubt it. So, basically, what I found was that they are more likely to whiff jab if you just do raw st.HP and no SC, since the instant SC stops most of the guard pushback. Then you have to block, or eat a counter hit. Worst case scenario on a raw blocked st.HP with improper spacing is that you are forced to block. They might even be able to walk up and try to throw you, if your spacing is REALLY bad.
*edit, ok after a little more testing, I can confirm that against certain 3 frame normals, you COULD st>HP -> SC to bait a whiff, if your spacing is on point, but if they press a jab, or something that had a bit more range than a st.lk you may be forced to block, or get counter hit if you try to anticipate a whiff, and your spacing isn’t immaculate.
I tested this on rashid, and his 3 frame lk can be forced to whiff, but his 4 frame st has a chance to connect unless you have immaculate spacing. Also, if the opponent sees you are being too liberal with this “mixup” they could maybe catch you with a mp or something and force you into a worse situation. This is very character specific, and spacing specific.
Another problem is, that I’m not sure if st.HP is -3 or -2 on block, and that is very important. It could be the difference between being frame trapped by a mp/mk or a lp/lk. @Mnszyk said -2 but prima guide says - 3. The google docs frame data did have incorrect info for lk.CT on hit, so i’m not sure which one to believe right now.
Soooo, if you wanna use this tech, you’re gonna have to go to the lab and see whos jabs/lks reach where, and know which characters rely on what buttons to escape these kinds of traps. And your spacing better be SOLID.
Nice bro. I knew that the timings could switch but I didn’t know it was that easy to get the hit. If you wait TOO long tho, you will miss your chance to make them block, and if you do it too far away, it will be a bit of a flubb also. This is actually gonna be very useful. I can confirm that both versions are at least +7 on block, so you can frametrap with any of your buttons that are equal or faster than that. Preferably cr.mk, cause that counter hit leads to a lot of stuff in both modes 
Sorry for the triple post but I definitely think you all need to see this information.
Can you make a video of this cross up? I don’t understand what’s happening or how to emulate it
Lol I came up with the tech and posted it in the other thread…
We are finding different effective ways of using it…
The first was after TCxxmk.ct which would meaty on normal quick wakeup… But doesn’t work on back quick rise… But I found that TCxxlk.ct will always cross up on normal and back quick rise…
Have so many options after… The cross up lol… The best part is if they try to DP even after being cross up you can neutral jump and all DPs will whiff…
My BH full punish usually is BH st.HP (SC) st.HP (SC) cr.mp xx mk.ct…
The meaty I use after cross up lk.ct is st.HK its the most consistent with both normal and back quick wake up. Delay pressing st.HP for both and you should get full punish… Or cr.mk for confirms… Even doing ex. Grand izuna drop… Lol
wait so you are canceling the target combo into LK roll? If its no recovery I’m guessing you stay in front? But you guys are saying you XUP and get a meaty st.hk (because of the 1 frame standing thing) after? This is godlike. I’ll try this out in training mode. Anyone here have any tips for anti airing close jumps? St.hk and Cr.hp work for a bit further out but man am I having trouble against R Mika and Laura jumping in. Sometimes I’ll try to air throw and just get hit… air throw has abysmal range in this game =[.
Greatlakes, yeah the spacing st.hp xx SC is character specific. Some jabs are really stubby in this game and you need to space it perfectly. I’ll use this tactic when shimmying and if they block it I’ll try to react if they whiff a normal. If it hits then cr.mp xx EX roll always combos even from max distance.
Yea cancel lk.ct from the TC… The st.HK don’t work if they crouch and press a button…
For those type of jump in I use cr.hk…
Will post a vid of the tech in a bit… And you guys can make a full detailed video with all the options and punish combos, meaties, what works and what dont work.
I think a few people knew about the cross up CT not so long after release, but when did you first post about it? @nappydude? Not coming at you, just really curious. I choose to always cross up, until I have established fear in the opponent, then the mix of of letting CT hit meaty is a great option because they will block the wrong way expecting a crossup. Really good stuff
The two setups I gave easily makes 3 normals hit meaty after this crossup, one on a hard knockdown, and the other right after a TC. Also we’ve been discussing here that meaty HK will be stuffed by wake up crouching normals, so meaty HK can work, but is kind of risky.
Try out those setups tho, they are literally perfect if done correctly. Works on back and normal recovery.
double post *
@greatlakes_pvp didn’t know it was know after release… Just posting on what I found out and spreading the info… I would track back on when I posted it. But then that’s irrelevant if it was known right after the game came out.
Either way it helps us all. I never saw any Vega like Grahm Wolfe or Pr Balrog doing it. I joined here like 6 days ago and just posted it hoping it would be new and helpful. I love discovering extremely useful tech. Anyway, I’m making a vid right now tho to show those 2 setups so ppl can see it in action.
These are the two setups I came up with. I can do them just by feel, but using the jabs will make them frame perfect. Of course, you have to be on point other wise you’ll mess it up and eat a counter hit yourself lol. The ken cpu was set to jab on recovery and that results in a counter hit. The third video just shows that even a cr. mk can be used in this setup which is very nice. A 3 frame jab might possibly beat the cr mk, but i’ll have to see later, I think we will be good. Kens jab is 4 frames.
With the lk.ct cross up tech… If they DP you can neutral jump. Lp, mp, HP. But ex dp will always hit you so just jump in the direction you came from against ryu… You can neutral jump all of kens dp…
Ken - neutral jump all DP - punish
Ryu - neutral jump lp, mp, hp. Jump in opposite direction for ex dp - punish
Cammy - neutral jump mp, hp. Ex will hit you, and if you try to jump over you can not punish her. Can not punish
Necalli - all of his dp will punish you
Rashid - neutral jump ex dp - punish
Karin - neutral jump ex dp - punish
Chin li - who can ex sbk and stop vega from doing the whole play all together… Neutral jump and proceed to punish…