The problem with 5HK meaty is that if someone wakes up with a crouching attack they will low profile it still, with the buffer window and the prevalence of wakeup jab it loses some utility.
don’t know if this is common knowledge but when comboing into EX FBA close to/in the corner if you hold to the direction of the corner and don’t ever hit down while doing a late izuna(timing varies per character a bit), you’ll recover outside of the corner with your opponent in it.
You can’t backroll the izuna so this sets a pretty static knockdown situation on quickrise. In the event of a quickrise with the claw on you can lp ASE(you have to walk a 1-2f on some characters). This will catch wakeup jabs/throws and the swingback will let you avoid some reversals(I haven’t done that extensive of testing but it will dodge chun/karin’s at least). it’s hard to actually get the ASE blocked though.
Claw off you can just kind of shimmy and represent normals or command grab. if you whiff an immediate cr.mp, then hit cr.jab it will stuff a wakeup ex sbk, or a reversal cr.jab from chun but pretty much lose to anything else. etc. etc. Just record stuff and try it out.
if someone doesn’t quickrise the situation changes though.
With claw on, whiff cr.mp nj.mk is a 4f safejump that makes 3f reversals miss their first active frame meaning you’re safe from them. Jf.lk is also a 4f safejump, and has a tendency to mess up inputs. I recorded the dummy doing a wakeup ex shoryu, and it actually messes it up to where depending on when i hit j.lk it sometimes wakes up with a reversal cr.mp or the ex srk just whiffs going the wrong way. slightly delaying the j.lk can cause reversals to get counterhit stuffed in their startup frames.
with claw off whiff chained cr.jab x2 is a 5f safejump, and with neutral jump mk it has a tendency to cause the first active frames of 3 and 4f reversals to whiff allowing you to block them. If you j.lk it has a tendency to cause reversals to whiff completely.
Dumb combo
claw st.hp xx stance change, walk stlp, walk st.lp, cr.mp, xx ex FBA izuna 277/439. Does 1 less damage than st.hp xx stance change, cr.mp xx ex fba izuna, but it does 59 more stun.
Ok, so scrap the 5HK meaty then, I guess 2MK > 5MP (crouch confirm here and go from there) is the way to go. Still seems pretty strong though. Only problem is we have no way to really stop them crouching, so it will be hard to loop.
I would use that once or twice after catching them with a few meaty 6mk overheads
That TC crossup is sick, I just posted about it a couple days ago. I find it is easy to set up after a cc sweep as well. If you get the timing on point and understand the distances, you can cause the lk tc to hit meaty instead of crossing up so it’s pretty much a 50/50 once they’ve seen it once, and you’re 0 on hit rather than -2 which is with mk ct.
You unfortunately cannot meaty the 6MK, it’s far, far too slow.
Just played a few games and I managed to implement it a few times, noone managed to block the crossup the first time funny enough. I only used the non crossup once, on someone who blocked it crossup the second time time and yeah it worked alright.
You do sacrifice a fair bit of guaranteed damage sometimes to set it up though, so you better hope it does work.
After lk tc on normal recovery and back recovery you can use st.HP. Bec of the timing.
You have to delay your timing a bit on both recovery, and you should always get a counter hit. The combo I use st.HP switch claw (sc) st.HP switch claw (sc)- cr.mp xx mk.CT
On another note if its not known. After st.hp xx lp.ase and mp.ase - dash up, you are +frames… You can dash once for normal recovery and do a st.HP meaty and on back recovery you can dash twice and st.lk meaty.
And I’ve read in one of the other post that after ex grand izuna you are at +2… So what I do is mix up st.HP xx lp.ase if it hits I dash in and pressure, or st.HP ex grand izuna dash in pressure…
After pressure end from ex grand izuna I either fish for a counter hit with st.lk into TC which is a frame trap… You can buffer lk.CT regardless because it will option select the TC… If its blocked the CT won’t come out… If it hits the CT will come out and u proceed…
Draw back is TC whiffing which in our case we should try an ex grand izuna or lp.grand izuna if we have no meter… This play is helping me a lot…
Found this weird “pseudo-fake” crossup with Vega today but it was pretty hard to do consistently. After I hit LK Crimson Terror from combo, I’m in crossup range but Instead of doing j.LK, I tried to do j.HP and it hit front side of the target but Vega appeared behind him suddenly without any crossup indicator. And sometimes Vega doesn’t switch sides which is pretty random. I have yet to try this against other characters but it worked on Bison.
EDIT: Works against blocking opponent in the corner and is somewhat easy to do. Doesn’t work mid-screen apparently from what I tested.
You can hit it meaty after a cc knockdown tho right? With the proper timing and spacing?
I am in love with the lk crimson tho. Once you show it to them one time, there is a lot of fear. Especially on characters that don’t have an invincible reversal. I think it will be a very big tool in his meta for sure. I was even doing something like, target combo -> lk ct crossup -> 2hk -> lk ct again, and I’m pretty sure you end up on the other side again on back recovery and normal, I need to check my vids. The 2hk after crossup is basically a hard read and a little risky, but when they aren’t prepared they usually will eat that sweep.
@“Hyun Sai” TC means target combo, which for Vega, is 5mp - > 5hk (with his claw off only)
@Veserius So a wake up jab would stuff a 5hk meaty even tho they are vulnerable for 1frame for it to hit? I wanna go to training mode and test it out but if you know for sure, i’ll just take your word for it… That sucks tho if it’s true…
I was messing around with the clawless TC lk roll cross up and doing meaty 2.hp on their wake up quick rise. It’s unpunishable meaty (even can be +2 on block, great frame trap setup) It forces standing on hit, cancelable into all of the rolls on hit, and meaty ( might just be counter hit) it combos into 5.lp, which means we should be able to confirm into ex fba and it will hit because of the forced standing if they tried to wake up with crouching lights. This is all after the cross up setup vs quick rise.
Could be a really strong set play tool if we have something that can threaten back tech.
any reversal low cancels the force standing frames(it’s more than one). If you meaty with other buttons you can kind of enforce the st.hk, but it’s worse vs. v-reversal and stuff than some other options.
I agree. I don’t really like using st.hp claw switch unless I am ready to confirm that it hit, because on block, they can just spam out of it. If you get them to respect the st.hp -> ASE tho, that will make them less likely to just try and spam out after a blocked st.hp(claw). Then it can be used more freely. It is basically a guess for them whether or not you are gonna claw switch or pressure with ASE, and they are taking a risk by just pressing buttons most of the time. I don’t think it’s possible(for most people at least) to wait and react to a claw switch unless they are focusing a lot of mental strength just waiting for it.
If you don’t mix it up enough tho and just get switch happy, they can and will definitely punish you. It is important to note tho, that Vega does give an audio cue for when he switches, and i’ll have to double check, but it might be possible (for a player with godlike reactions) to be able to jab once they hear that cue. I really hope not, but even if it is possible, mixing it up should be enough to make that too difficult.
To add to this… We should be inclined to use st.HP xx lp.ase more… On hit hes +frames after you dash.
Normal recovery - dash - st.HP will hit meaty
Back recovery - dash dash - st.lk will hit meaty
Go for the normal recovery only until they Start get predictable with back recovery. Bec even when you dash - st.HP, if they back recover they can not punish you even with DP. And you are in the perfect position with vega.
Personally I prefer s.HP->SC->c.lp then wait for a while first before doing command throw…
Too many opponents like to n.j to get out of the commander throw right after the HP->SC block string. And vega will eat a full damage combo if he does the command throw right after the block string and it whiffs. Not really worth it until I condition the opponent to block (HP>l.ASE) and don’t neutral jump (HP>SC>c.lp, wait, jump air throw)