The more and more I play him I think he only needs a couple of small changes. An improvement to his cr.hp and a safe on block target combo is probably all he needs.
Seems like having street fighter players develop street fighter was a bad idea lol. So can combo fiend actually do combos? I’m guessing not judging by this games combo system >.<
Combofiend is godlike, check his matches in CVS2 or Marvel 3 vanilla.
I miss him playing in tournaments.
Updated my suggestions:
-
Stun 950 -> 1050
Low Stun is usually a characteristic of characters who are difficult to reach or have ways to get out. Bison is definetely not one of those by any means. -
Last 2 frames of Dash Foward are cancellable into attacks.
His dash is supposed to make up for his lack of walkspeed. Well, giving him a slow dash doesn’t do. -
S.HP startup 11f -> 9f
Small buff to make it a bit more usable in neutral/shimmy. It’s not as strong as other strong moves because he shifts his hurtbox foward A LOT before attacking. A buff in speed would make up for that so at least he’s not vulnerable for that long. The 9f startup also means it can be used in VTC combos. -
Cr.HP startup 10f -> 8f
-
Cr.HP hurtbox shifted downwards a bit.
No reason to give him one of the crappiest aa in the game. It won’t be godlike this way, but at least it won’t trade much. -
Shadow Axe is now +6/-2.
It’s not that strong to be unsafe. -
V-Skill now also works against lows.
It’s not that good. Too unreliable. Doesn’t grant good results like Ryu’s parry. -
Psycho Blast LP/MP/HP damage increased by 10 during the first 6 active frames.
-
Psycho Blast Recovery and blockstun reduced by 2f. Other 2f from recovery frames are put in active frames.
The added damage makes Bison closer to be a heavy hitter. The other buffs make it better as a neutral tool. -
Make VT Scissors the same as without, except for the added teleport. Same damage as well.
-
Scissors (vt and non-VT) LK/MK/HK/EX damage 80/90/100/160.
Bison is supposed to be a heavy hitter according to combofiend. The damage reduction in VT is to compensate for the added versatility.
Bison shouldn’t lose tools when VT is active. Scissors LK is much more important than his VT-HK Scissors one. In SF4 Gouken suffered from the same problem with his Palm. -
Inferno’S Flames animation sped up to disappear together with the hitbox.
Visual change to make the move more understandable. -
Non-EX Inferno damage increased from 90/100/110/130 -> 100/110/120/140.
Bison is supposed to be a heavy hitter according to combofiend. -
All EX Inferno Startup 18 -> 15.
*VT specials should only enhance normal ones. 18f is too slow for a antiair. -
VT Headpress is fast as non-VT EX Headpress.
Activating VT shouldn’t take away one of his best tools, his EX Headpress. His VT-EX Headpress doesn’t serve the same purpose at all. -
Headpress OTG again. Only usable in Cr.HK CC situations.
Why not? His Slide is the only sweep with no setup because of its unrealiable frame data. This way can choose between wall carry and damage outside VT or damage while in VT (no corner carry possible). -
Headpress EX keeps its projectile invulnerability after touching the opponent.
Bison is punished on hit against some characters. -
VT EX Headpress has a shockwave that forces block advantage to a set number.
Tall characters make Bison lose his framedata, making him negative instead of positive. While dive kicks can be aimed at tall characters’s foot, his VT EX Headpress can’t be aimed. It’s automatic. -
VT EX Headpress hitbox active 4f before.
Currently, it’s worse as Air-to-air than non-VT one. Activating VT shouldn’t nerf Bison. -
Devil Reverse hurtbox reverted to Beta 3 size.
It wasn’t abusable before. The hurtbox enlargement made it awkard. It can’t be put away too easily for a move with poor damage and reward. -
Devil Reverse falls 5% faster.
Its hitbox is bad and it deals poor damage, plus requires charge. Right now, it’s so slow characters can react easily against it and aa. Let it be good as a surprise move. -
VT Devil reverse works like regular devil. Must input kick to teleport behind. Same to ex devil.
VT shouldn’t take tools away from Bison. Let him keep his original Devil Reverse. -
VT Specials spend less V-Gauge, but VTEX Specials spend more.
Some moves are not even that strong when used in neutral. His EX Cancels, however, deal huge damage and are a major comeback factor. Let’s balance these things a bit. -
Remove invulnerability from EX Headpress.
It’s wonky and shouldn’t be a factor. It’s better and easier to balance the character if we assume he doesn’t have an invulnerable reversal. With the suggested changes, he won’t need it anyway.
Make devil’s reverse build meter on whiff
If we’re not gonna have an invincible move then buff him across the board. I agree that most of Kriger’s ideas would make him good. You’d still have to play solid though, because his weak defense could kill you. But at least it would be more do-able to play solid.
These are my notes on this GLORIOUS list.
I think DR needs to be faster than 5%. That’s too conservative. 15-25% is more significant. I would also say that Headpress outside of V and EX needs to be improved.
For V DR, I think each punch button should dictate the position where Bison appears. Lp in front, MP on top, and HP from behind. VEX Dr appears from behind or something.
I disagree that VEX specials should use more V-gauge. The penalty of losing EX gauge should suffice. V specials should definitely consume less V-gauge though.
I still think his forward dash needs to be have less frames (19>), more specifically it needs to recover faster and retain the same amount of invincibility frames.
I also think the V-skill needs a buff beyond what you said but I’m not sure what would fit in with your change list best. For example, it should give you the same amount of V-gauge whether you fire the psycho shot or not.
I noticed that Bison’s stun values (which are on average lower than other characters) were ignored by your change list.
Most of your changes are focused on EX, V, and VEX specials, meaning Bison will still heavily rely on meter to deal damage (which is still lower than many characters even after these changes).
How does this change list resolve some of Bison’s key issues that make him competitively unattractive? Specifically, lack of invincible reversal, tools to open up (overhead for example), linear/predictable playstyle and moderate damage/stun output compared to the dominant characters?
I also added #25 
But with my proposed changes, he protects the neutral better, deals a bit more of damage and gets in a bit easier, which makes his meter stay filled for more time.
Also, the proposed VT buffs might make him scarier than VT Necalli. He’ll have a way easier time getting in to deal lots of damage.
Finally, the proposed changes are not meant to be applied with no regard to the rest of the cast. I have my own personal nerf/buff list to other characters too.
EDIT
I’m starting to share the viewpoint that Bison needs a few buffs but he isn’t quite as bad as people make him out to be.
C.HP should be change to 8 frame start up and 100 damage regardless of when it hits.
However I would like to see a change in anti airs in general. I want to see jab anti air gone in general. I really dislike the lack of effort it takes to use them as anti air.
S.MK start up reduced to 6 frames.
Psycho Axe +50 stun
Knee Press all normal versions + 10 damage and stun changed to 75*75.
EX Knee Press +1 recovery frame on hit. Sets up meaty Psycho Axe to be +3 on block.
All Psycho Infernos +10 damage stun changed to 150.
Psycho Blast all normal versions +10 damage and stun changed to 150.
Normal Devils Reverse damage and stun is fine because you can combo into follow up moves if this hits. No changes here.
Head Press both normal and EX, hitbox made slightly wider.
EX. Head Press, on hit Bison lands closer to the downed opponent. 1 less recovery frame, sets up meaty Psycho Axe to be +3 on block.
EX. Head Press frames 1 to 6 fully invincible.
SSD, leave as is.
Pyscho Reflect, changed to 3 frame start up, remove counterhit properties on recovery if no fireball follow up is used. Can restore V-Guage when used in V-Trigger mode.
V-Trigger
Knee Press all normal versions + 10 damage, stun to 150.
VT LK. Knee Press start up and travel distance changed to match non-VT version, invincible frames removed.
VT-EX Knee Press +1 recovery frame on hit. Sets up meaty Psycho Axe to be +3 on block.
Pyscho Inferno, all versions + 10 damage and stun = 150.
Pyscho Blast, all version +10 damage and stun = 150.
VT Head Press, start up reduced to match non-VT version.
VT. EX. Head Press, on hit Bison lands closer to the downed opponent. 1 less recovery frame, sets up meaty Psycho Axe to be +3 on block.
VT. EX. Head Press frames 1 to 6 fully invincible.
VT. EX. Head Press fix damage scaling bug that causes it to loss 8 damage when comboed into.
VT. DR, teleport side select-able depending on button press.
VT. EX.DR remove the EX flash that occurs before Bison goes into teleport animation.
VT. Critical Art +20 damage.
VT CA should definitely be dealing more damage I feel, but 20 is a little conservative no? Also where are the TELEDASH BUFFS?!
Besides that I really like your list.
Well my logic is that the VT CA buff would be combined with a damaged buff special move as well. Granted with damage scaling its not a lot. But the damage buffs I suggest would give Bison a small but noticeable damage boost over time.
Azza s list is good too.
How would you guys feel about making his V-Skill have the ability to reflect lows too?
I find myself in perfect shimmy range (j.mk, st.lp). The opponent knows I’m going to shimmy and uses cr.mk. I can’t reflect it. Kinda annoying. I don’t think I can st.hk crush counter it either?
I honestly don’t know why some V-Skills are SO LIMITED in use.
I guess the main purpose of V-skills initially at least is to give every character a way around projectiles without giving everyone a universal mechanic like parry or FA. Bison V-skill achieves this. It’s just that some V-skills have better secondary and maybe even tertiary uses.
The least they could’ve done is make VT V-skill much stronger in some way or significantly more reliable (like making the projectile firing invincible and making it a multi-hit parry).
maybe you should get more meter for parrying non projectile attacks?
You should get meter for parrying -period first.
Right now, you only get significant meter if you ‘psycho-retaliate’ with the projectile, which is retarded.
- I’m all for making his non-V dash a regular dash with 18 frames. The teleport should be reserved for V-trigger.
- All dashes should be teleports in V-trigger.
- V-skill should have a startup of 3 frames. This would make it more viable in frame trap situations.
- V-skill should be empowered by V-trigger by adding extra damage and absorbing two hits.
- Standing HP should do 100 damage rather than 80.
- Walk speed increased by 5%.
- Perhaps this is a bit too much, but how about his EX specials being able to chip to death in V-trigger mode?