I would like more meter gain in general off mediums, heavies, and psycho axe on block. 10%? 15%?
I use his EX moves a lot in general when I can get the opponent under 30-40% to try to close out stuff but having more meter to utilize more attacks and possible v-trigger punishes would be good too.
You have to be point blank to land that normally which is not happening in most situations. I want to be able to cr.lk to st.lk without the chained lp which more than often makes st.lk whiff.
Bison needs more damage and stun for his archetype to work. This I think is the biggest offender and fault in his design.
This can come about by small increments of damage buffs across the board to his specials and/or normal, and/or by making him gain V and Ex gauge faster than others (It’s thematic to do this too AND IT IS NOT OP).
**On to specific concerns:
**
V-skill buff. It needs to be on a level similar to Ryu’s and it needs to replenish more of the gauge when successful.
C.HP needs to be better in one way or another. No excuses for a wall like him to not have Birdie levels of AA.
Faster forward teledash (18f is the golden number) or faster recovery from dash (so he can attack/block sooner).
Faster start up on his HS/DR shenanigans and/or overall speed boost to these specials. These are his mobility tools, they need to be fast to compensate for his walk speed.
Specials use less V-gauge during active VT.
Personal wishes that are thematically correct but will probably be ignored:
Backward teledash with identical visuals to forward teledash. Gains some invincibility during VT
CA does more damage during VT.
Psycho Axe, S.HP, and C.HP are buffed during VT in some way and this is visually notable (like Final Bison!)
More insults during gameplay.
Yes! YES!
Things about Bison that should NOT change from SF5:
His walk speed. If all the above is to be taken into consideration then keep it. It’s boss.
No overhead. Faster HS/DR should compensate for this.
No command grab. His forward and back throws already look cooler than 99% of the cast’s throws. What possible command grab could look cooler than these.
No invincible special or ex special. If his V-gauge fills faster then he will have more V reversals, and faster access to super teledashes and even hopefully some invincible back teledashes for longer periods of time.
I think with changes like these we will keep Bison both cool as fuck and competitive.
I upped the 1st post with tbe good ideas i saw here for now
@Furious_blog: 【CPT2016】Street Fighter V - THAIGER UPPERCUT 2016 - Marn(R.Mika) vs. Dogura(Dictator) https://t.co/eYpY34cdL1
One of the reason why I want the VT scissor kicks reworked
Im not sure but can you do [counter hit] crLP xx VT LK scissor ??
Its either this is not possible or that nadeshiko hit the scissor kick from the top (dont see the spark tho) which means the hurtbox needs to be reworked as well
V-trigger lk knee press is 16 frames instead of 13 frames which does not allow it to combo on counter-hit off any light. It is sort of lame that we lose that CH cancel in V-trig. Your only option is blast or inferno.
I checked it in training mode and 3-frame jabs can be mashed to trade with the lk knee in that situation.
My little contribution
He needs :
- better walk speed
To have real shimmy like ken, nash, etc… - an overhead
To make people react because when they crouch block your attacks and react to your dash, you become completely ineffective. - jab anti-air
No matter how focus you are, you can’t react to all jumping, especially laura and ryu. I don’t understand why he doesn’t have this tool. - add INVINCIBILITY to KneePress.
Seriously, i’m fed up to get CC or CH. How can a normal move can beat a special move, this concept escapes me… - Less recovery on whiff kneepress
Neutral jump is the key against Bison - A tracking HeadPress
How come Bison land behind someone doing a fireball ? - Makes s.mk combo with ch cr.mp
For all char :
Delete the back hitbox on all neutral jump. It certainly happened to you too but when you anticipate a neutral jump, you dash under him to get behind and his foot/punch hit you. This is nonsense.
If you pretty much only change the walk speed to average walk speed he will automatically be a different character and possibly broke.
Most obvious will influence his shimmy
But not as obvious will also make him much harder to hit and frame trap and can be used as anti air tool especially when you are walking forward against an air attack that can only hit from the front. Bisons super slow walk speed makes him an easy target to jump on.
If they change the input lag situation I think his current anti air options are fair.
I feel that in general bison is a pretty well designed character, strong and interesting offense potential to open people up but with a glaring weak defense.
People feel its difficult to open ppl up but I also feel the game is really early and people haven’t figured out all his options yet.
I’m not a fan of fixing characters planned flaws. So i’m not into changes like better walk speed, overhead, invincible moves etc. Instead i’d rather see them improving his strengths.
As a hard hitting character Bison has a very low stun output and his damage is just “ok”. He needs to hit HARDER. Also needs a better anti air, this one shouldn’t be considered a planned flaw because you can’t have a character with such slow walk speed being so free to cross ups. It’s like they overlook this change from SF4 to SF5.
So basically:
-More damage
-More stun
-More meter building
-17f regular dash OR 21f teleport
-Better anti air and drop this bullshit of cr.HP dealing only 70 if you hit it as an anti air.
I basically want him to deal superior damage too.
Also, i really want him to retain all his tools when he enters vtr. I want his exheadpress speed for his vt headpress and regular devil reverse too
Not sure Bison can be classified as a low stun character. As pointed out his normal BNB combo’s do less damage than other characters but you can’t just take that in isolation and say he’s low stun, you got look at how likely he is to land his BNB’s compared to other characters and how much stun he’s likely to rack up in the neutral game or from corner pressure. His crush counter stun is good off S.HK and if you spend meter you get good stun and a little more damage.
C.HP dealing 70 damage as anti air is pretty much universal among the cast I think.
Bison hitting a crush counter does as much of even less stun than a lot of regular bnbs anyways. Hell, Chun’s combo from a damn cr.LP (which is more likely hitting than Bison’s crush) does more stun than Bison from a regular st.HK. Nash does 400 stun from a regular cr.HP (9f startup, +3 on block, same as st.HK). He’s low stun there’s no way around it specially if you take into account his archetype. He was SUPPOSED to be a stun/damage monster.
What other characters have this reduced anti air damage? Well anyway his cr.HP needs buffs. Hurtbox sucks, it takes 11f to work as antiair (sucks even more with sfv input delay), most trades are in opponent’s favor, doesn’t cover his weakness to crossups because of his slow walkspeed.
CC S.HK leads to 465 stun with no meter. That’s more than his BNB’s. If you spend a bar you can do 535 stun.
If you look at Bison’s BNB combo’s or crush counter combo’s they may do less stun or less damage than other characters but they also leave him with momentum even out of the corner. He ends his combo with LK or MK Knee Press and he’s at +3 or +2, he ends with MP.Inferno he gets dash in meaty pressure or a 5 frame safe jump. He has the potential to get more stun and damage from there. I’m sure other characters get additional set ups off combo’s but I can’t say for certain if Bison gets more or less follow ups from his combo’s but its something that would have to be fully examined before starting he’s a low stun character. There is other factors too. Cammy for instance has a BNB that does higher stun than Bison, but she won’t use it mid screen as she will use Spiral Arrow (does less stun than Bison’s BNB) as her combo ender, trading stun for corner carry.
Ryu, Ken, Karin have the same reduction in damage after the first frame.
I agree C.HP needs to be speed up or input lag reduced. I don’t think it should cover his weakness to cross up because he’s always had this weakness, its not new to V.
Yes but that’s why i said they overlooked this in the transition from SF4 to 5. His lack of anti airs was covered by his amazing walk speed that allowed him to space things better. And honestly, cr.HP from USF4 > cr.HP from SF5 it also traded a lot but at least it’d do a big chunk of damage.
A lot of characters can maintain their pressure after their bnb but they still do much more stun than Bison. Nash is the first i can think of, since i sub him and i always stun people a lot more with him.
Next tournament i think i’ll keep an eye for how much dizzies the Bison players manage to do compared with other characters.
His walk speed didn’t really help him deal with with jumps in IV. I never saw Bison walking back or forward and then using C.HP. It didn’t help with cross ups either.
S.HK had much greater horizontal range than C.HP but it was prone to trading at that range and only was liking to win clean from angles C.HP would also work from.
I do feel now that his AA overall is worse in V. Largely because of the input lag. I know C.HP does less damage than IV but I think it trades less in this.
I’ve been trading a lot, but it dealt 110 damage and now it deals 70.
Something must be done.
Saying he used to have a weakness doesn’t justify his flaws now. His archetype changed. His whole gameplan changed. Bison is almost the opposite of he was in SF4.
Bison deals OK damage and OK stun, but isn’t his new archetype (as presented to us in cfiend’s panels and his ingame stats) is a Power-oriented character. He should be doing Birdie damage.
I find it trades with Ryu J.LK, and Zangiefs and Birdies, J.MK. But none of them are negative trades.
You need to stop going on about this archetype. Designs change over time. According to the panel, Bison was a character designed for intermediates, the official guide book has now rated as a character for beginners. In the guide book according to combofiend Bison is all about his normal’s up close and his powerful V-Trigger. The in game stat graph means diddle squat.
Bison doing Birdie damage would be insane IMO. He might need buffs but lets not go overboard.
He s not that far from birdie
I would be 100 percent content with just more damage, stun, and better teledashes/c.hp.
Even if everything else is unchanged.