I see your point. I’m all for giving a little something out to top 8. I was just saying that there are other ways to go about making sure that it happens. It definitely makes more sense (for BIG tournaments) to keep payout in top 3 to ensure that top players are going to come. But it wouldn’t be a big deal for the organizers to go to MadCatz, GameStop, Capcom, or a fuckload of other relative companies and ask them for their support, too. I’ve worked with sponsors before, and they’re usually more than happy to give out prizes and shit as long as you give them some proper advertising in return.
I’m all for a win/win scenario. I just think that splitting up the pot among the top 8 would be spreading things too thin.
The argument that top players wont make the travel because they wont get a refund its completely ridiculous.
Top players make the trip anyways and they are all ready to lose, there’s no way marn knew a lot of players will show up at the door and will make wcw profitable for him if he won. Give me a break, he showed up for much more than just the money.
Top 3 if a tourney is less than 5 people seems reasonable.
Top 5 if the tourney is 51-100 people
top 8 if the tourney is over 100 people.
A LOT of people give up or don’t enter tourneys if they don’t stand a chance of winning, spreading it around a little more it’s an excellent idea.
Horrible horrible idea, I hate when I see this shit. Cool stand out player didn’t get paid. Stand out a little more and get 3rd, you don’t get paid based on being a crowd favorite or playing a low tier and making the fan boys cream themselves.
U get paid by make it to the end, only time more then top 3 should get paid is when someone has a major sponsor, like when evo had toyota they had enough money to distribute to make it worth it. I see people bring up major leagues like (MLG,CPL) u guys do know they have a lot bigger prize pool right? And why is that? Cause they have fucking sponsors.
Only people you’re going to hear saying lower then top 3 should get paid, are of course those people who don’t make top 3. I don’t even place in tournaments anymore, but I know if I did. I want as much of a cut as possible.
lol, just saw that sorry. Nice way to flip it. No tournament players are not sponsors they are TOURNAMENT PLAYERS. And how are we going to get a fair gauge to what these so called “sponsors” get their money used on? I’m sure if u ask most of the top players, they will say top 3 is just fine. And all the people always placing lower and hoping to crack that top 8 spot will want another payout.
Standard payout has been top 3 and should stay that way.
Oh man just went back and looked. At the first post, u compared a SF tournament to poker??? Are u serious? A poker tournament will generally have a huge field 2-3k. Unless you’re talking SnGs but now were just reaching. Most poker tournaments have a prize pool that is guaranteed already regardless of entries and then the prize pool gets bigger with more entries. The mini FTOPs first event was a 20 dollar buy in, paid all the day down to the top 1k people. But there was 13k… entries and a guaranteed prize pool of 400k I think?
Anyways, not trying to be a dick. But I hate this :\
No one suggested that crowd favorites or unusual character choices should get paid more.
Only people you’re going to hear saying only top 3 should get paid, are of course the people who make top 3.
I’m sure if you ask most of the other players, they will say paying out more spots is just fine. (In related news, people like money. This and your local weather tonight at 11.)
Poker tournaments typically pay out the top 10%, regardless of size. The number of entrants has nothing to do with it - a 70 man tournament will pay 7, a 500 man tournament will pay 50, a 4000 man tournament will pay 400.
The size of the prize pool has nothing to do with it either. The $1 tournaments pay out in the exact same way as the $500 tournaments.
Anyway, SF is not poker, and no one suggested paying out a full 10% of the field in SF. I was just pointing out that every comparable type of competition I can think of pays more spots than just the top 3, and sometimes many more.
SF tournaments have been the exception to the rule, for no other reason than “we used to pay top 3 when we had 30 man tournaments”. It’s time that tournament organizers stopped and thought about what’s really best for the tournament and best for the players.
Why?
I’ve given a list of reasons why more payouts make sense. It rewards more players, it gives good-but-not-great people an achievable goal to aim for, it keeps people motivated and it feels great when they actually win something, and it’s more exciting to watch late-round matches when you know money is on the line. But everyone who disagrees just says “It should stay the same” without any reason why that’s actually better.
The only real reason so far is “if you go too far with it, the top prize will be too small and top players won’t come to the tournament.” Solution: don’t go too far with it.
Because it makes perfect sense to set all the rules going by traditions. I’ll see you at the Evo 2010 jousting tournament, you better get in some training with your lance if you want to win some gold jewelry.
By the way, where did the tradition of capitalizing every word in a sentence come from? Seriously, I’d like to know.
My typing has nothing to do with the topic in the thread. And yes you will see me at EVO 2010 I never miss it. Maby we can get a money (First To 10 $2000 Each) :china:
And paying top 8 would end up with more money for the top 3 spots.
The WCW tournament should have been $20 a person and paid top 8. They charged a very small amount of money for such a big venture, doubling the cost would lose few participants.
But then I’m just looking at the economics of it, not the tradition.
Tradition is the antithesis of progression. Top 8 should get payout: there’s more players than there ever has been. It doesn’t even have to be a lot, but at least something so you felt like it wasn’t a total waste to make it to the end.
Rarely have I seen reports specifically detailing the top 3, it’s always the top 8. It’s the way the tournament is structured and the prizes should reflect that.
50%
25%
15%
2%
2%
2%
2%
2%
^ Something along those lines. Keep the top 3 with a uniquely high reward, but just -something- to the rest of the people that got that far. I mean at that point it might just cover some food costs or something but at least it’s there.
I’ll be honest, not even in sports do they have more than Top 5. All seriousness aside, TOP 3 is something to ASPIRE to. Less than that will basically be dragging ass and will provide some players with less monetary compensation for the dedication they put into the game.
Imagine if you were the Top player, would you want to take a pay cut out of your tournament winnings to every person you just beat out for at that event? Sorry, good games or not, that will simply make shooting for Top 3 less valuable.
^^^ um… couldnt you ASPIRE to MORE MONEY by getting a higher place than 4th or 3rd or second???
lol it makes NO SENSE whatsoever to only pay top 3 in a large field of contestants (over 100)
the argument that only top 3 shouyld get payed cause it makes everyone try harder is STUPID… with that thinking, why not just pay only the winner… cause technically speaking at the end of the day everyone else is a LOSER…
seriously it’s just common sense to pay more people money while still keeping the top 3 lucrative… and lets face it… ANY amount of money is lucrative unless you traveled for the tourny… but imagaine how many more people would be willing to travel if they were to get like a c-note for 8th place… some maybe… hell people travel knowing they dont have a snowballs chance in hell of placing in the money, but yet they still come.
more spreading of money will attract more players… same as beginner and intermediate tournies like they have in japan will attract more of the players that know they have no chance of qualifying for sbo or taking out the local topdogs… this helps out the community by making a more competitive atmosphere for spots that arent well known like less the bottom half of tiop 8… imagine the comp, knowing that if you win a game that you place in the money and if you lose you get nada… well there would be more of that if more spots were paid out.
But that is the whole point. If you pay out top 8 you can bring in more money at the tournament and pay the top 3 more than you would be able to otherwise.
I don’t think it should be expanded unless tournaments start getting sponsors so the total prize payout is closer to like 10k. Only tournament that can do that so far without any is EVO if they get the same amount of entries next year.
Splitting a like 3k pot to top8 is dumb and takes away incentive for players from opposite coasts to travel. Like others have said players top8 worthy can make some pocket money from MM’s.
If I was going to expand the prize pool I’d prolly only go to top5 for now. Doing this at EVO might help attract more foreign players.
Right now payouts seem to be working well. The high/mid lvl players that are making top10 at majors can win money at local events to fund themselves to the larger events.
I come from a history of very competitive miniatures games (World of Warcraft Minis was my last one), and On average, those prized out to top 8. I think that’s very reasonable.
The point is IT has always been Top 3 in tournaments. Why is it that Top 3 have to take a cut out of their winnings after working so hard to pay out the people that obviously didn’t work as hard to earn that money?
Sorry if you don’t understand, I have been playing video games competitively for nearing 6 years, and did sports most of my life. I just do not see a reason to change things now because we feel like the person who was just outside the money got screwed. Sadly, that person didn’t want it enough to win that much or his opponent was simply better than him and wanted it more.
Where will we draw the line if this was to change? Hypothetically: Instead of Top 3 getting paid, it’s now Top 4. Then the guy who got 5th wants money, do we change it again? Give him the hypocritical headbutt? Sorry, but I don’t see changing this will do any good and can simply bring out more people who don’t want to work as hard to earn the money at tournaments.
The point is IT has always been Top 3 in tournaments. Why is it that Top 3 have to take a cut out of their winnings after working so hard to pay out the people that obviously didn’t work as hard to earn that money?
[/Quote]
These statements are somewhat in contention, why pay the second and third place finishers when they “obviously” didn’t work as hard to earn that money? Someone is at some point, making a conscious choice to how many places deserve recognition. Recognizing top 3 is something you still have yet to make the argument for, is it arbitrary? Merely tradition?
Your argument makes many assumptions and one gap. That gap being you never state a reason for why top 3 isn’t also a number people talked and agreed to.
Also it assumes there will be players who are fine with shooting for eighth place. You have been in tournament scene for a long time right, how many times have you talked to the guy who finished 3rd who said he was totally fine with just being 3rd best? Everyone wants to move up the ladder.
Your argument finally assumes that there is no way discussion can decide on a number of people to pay out when it fails to recognize at some point someone made the same decision to pay top 3, and it stayed that to now. So it is not a stretch to think people can come together and reevaluate the system without it being an issue of wanting to pay every last guy in the bracket. (I just don’t buy the slippery slope argument when the Top 3 decision lasted…~two-three decades?)
Of course, I know that in a sense that is how it is. It is solely tradition that I’m prioritizing, because I have been apart of mini style tournaments that paid out Top 5-8 before in other games. The only problem with anything more is it makes getting Top 3 less valuable. If you deduct from Top 3’s payment, that’s the simple fact. Sure it’s more money, but how many top players will fly across the country when Top 3 was getting $7,000, $2,000, and $1,000 then it changes to $5,000, $1,000, $500, $200, $200,… Essentially you are taking away $2,000 from the person that worked the hardest and giving it away to multiple other people who will barely see any value in it.
Plane tickets are not cheap, Hotels are not cheap, and as such Top players need to have a way to pay off their trip or they won’t come.
The numbers above as simply an example for tournaments the size of Evo. NO OTHER TOURNAMENT IS THAT LARGE. Over 1,000 people…
No one just stops at 3rd… Everyone who is truly competitive goes for 1st, but all the time they will be putting into shooting for 1st will be lackluster when they get that pay cut. Simply put, I’m not going to step on toes, twist nipples, or further beating this horse.
I would just rather see Top 3 have REAL incentive for doing so well, instead of people who did okay get their earnings.
Just my 0.02 cents, don’t have to take it. I just feel when it comes to competition, tradition is the way to go.
I hate this logic. If it’s 15, why not bump it to 20? If it’s 20, why not bump it to 25? How about, no one in this thread is winning tournaments, and the current tournament payouts seem to be attracting enough players, so lets not lobby to make ourselves pay more money.
So, because we’re not winning tournaments, whatever “we” think doesn’t matter? I hate this logic.
If the payouts for EVO were extended to top 8, and the entry fee raised another 5-10 bucks, there probably would’ve been more Japanese players coming to make some money. I’m sure a lot of people were kind of let down when we found out only Daigo and Dan were making it from Japan because there weren’t enough payouts. EVO was supposed to be for the best in the world, and the limited payouts kept a lot of the world’s best players from coming. :lame: