I’m not going to sit up here and act like a pro, but I’ve played the nash matchup and it’s not as bad as I think you may want it to be. This of course is going on my experience. You seem to not care about the unknown things that you DIDNT see. How about Bison’s potential answer to Uriens Aegis refrector mixup with ex Headstomp? Would having meter mean that Urien can only use unsafe headbutt or tackle to end his strings? And are we not forgetting that this character isnt even finished yet? lol
OOOOHHH yeah!! the same EX headpress that has 0 invincible frame and can be stop with a normal and HAS an amazin track how I didn’t think of that? of course is just my opinion he is not as bad; everything is a conspiracy; I have been discovered, I’m an Illuminati member undercover!!! I’m so happy that in your hands and Azzas he is Top tier a SSSSSS character; you two can shake hands and be happy with this Bison enjoy it.
No one said your the only one saying he’s bad. You got a lot of heat…what are you coming under artillery fire when you leave your house?..seriously…its an internet forum what do you expect, you have your opinion, others may or may not agree with it. Are you really being kept up at night because some random person on the internet disagrees with you about a certain facet of a video game. Taking heat?..give me a break. As for the tournament Problem X won, in fairness it was early days, no one had mastered any character. If dash S.HK worked then keep doing it until they stop it. Its still a reasonable tool, even some pro players don’t have the best reactions so it can on occasion still work.
I didn’t say Urien doesn’t have better options, he may or may not, the point I was making was that video you posted didn’t prove that, and Urien’s win was more down to mistakes on the Bison player part than Urien winning because he has better tools.
I don’t know how you can state anything as fact when the character is not out yet.
It has 4 frames of hit invincibility and complete projectile invincibility. I’m pretty certain Ageis Reflector acts as a projectile. So it might get Bison out of certain set ups.
I never said he’s top tier, I thought he was quite strong at first now I think he’s a little on the weak side. I’ve been wrong before and will no doubt be wrong again. At the same time I try to be balanced in my opinions, not downplay my characters strengths, not jump to conclusion based on trailers or one video between two players who don’t know the match up and one of them made multiple mistakes.
I think that you don’t want to understand what I’m saying; I will make even easier then, this is what I say “NO!! I’m not the only here one who said since beta 4th Bison was bad, really bad” that means that I was THE only one before the game came out to say Bison was BAD and here a lot of users to me that i was wrong, have tu ge used to it and I was crazy.
about your opinion on Problem X I told you is your opinon; however you need that I clarify that to; opinions can´t be discussed because they are subjective!! if you thing he is good, GREAT;I can not change that or I want to do. the tournament was two months almost 3 and everyone here was already saying and other TRUE professional that Bison suck!! which is no longer an opinion is a fact the proof is that all professionals drop him; even Problem X did, who SUCK in my opinion.
about EX headpress won’t help much if you watch the video at 1.50 Ageis Reflector came after was hit so you will eat the combo and if Bison is NOT and you do EXHP as every other character will stopped with a hit because unlike SF4 it dosent have enough invincibility.
and this will be my last commentabout it; we will never agree you think he is ok “little on the weak side” and I think that is the worst character in game. enjoys playing with him; I won’t because HE IS THE WORST CHARACTER IN THE GAME and that’s my opinion.
Fine we can agree to disagree.
Any particular quirks or strategies you guys guys personally have as Bison players? I almost never use Vtrigger unless the momentum is in my favor. I will use meter immediately, most often using it on ex DR or ex SK to basically make it my turn to play as much as possible. I take to the skies A LOT. I hate playing like that…but I almost feel like I have to as Bison. I have no idea how people play a slow methodical, grounded Bison in this game. I play online only, so maybe that is why I’ve developed this way. The most methodical moments of my play take place when the opponent is in the corner. I watched a bunch of Tampa bisons replays last night and really took note of how different his Bison is…Despite how stiff this game is, there is room for expression
Took you three months to admit Bison AA sucks ass.
No ones perfect you know. I can admit when I’m wrong. I was basing my original view on his AA options that his C.HP had the same start up speed as his USF IV C.HP which was quite solid and the fact in this game dive kicks are less prevalent in V than they were in IV, something that gave Bison trouble in IV. I wasn’t factoring in the high input lag.
Bison’s AA sucks relative to almost all other characters in this game, he has the worst AA in the game with the possible exception of Vega, I’m not sure who’s is worse overall though.
Watching replays of Bison match ups and from my own personal experience, you see a huge number of direct jump in attacks not anti aired even though there was time to perform C.HP. I don’t have the best reactions but anti airing more is something I’ve tried to focus on improving recently and I do think I’m improving in that area and it made a noticeable difference to my overall win rate. Secondly I’ve also studied hurt boxes for the full roster and their is some common jump in attacks that have large hurt boxes extended around making them more susceptible to CC S.HK anti air.
Being wrong about his AA doesn’t make my attitude towards overtly negative posts on this forum from various posters incorrect. The tone of a lot of posts or overly negative and defeatist.
I’ve seen posts saying the Guile match up was going to be impossible based on nothing more than his reveal trailer without any match up footage or access to frame data.
Posts about how Balrog was going to dominate Bison with his safe non counter-able rush punches and great normal’s and high damage, only one of which statements was actually true.
Posts saying that if input lag is reduced Bison is more screwed because dash up pressure will be even weaker, but nothing about Bison being able to anti air better if that occurs or being better able to counter dash up pressure himself. Even if that’s a fair point about dash up pressure becoming weaker, not mentioning getting an improved ability to AA is just disingenuous.
Posting videos of a match up against an unreleased character, between two players who could not have much match up experience and in which the Bison players drops 4-5 combo’s and declaring it proof that the Urien match up is terrible for Bison.
People saying Bison is terrible in neutral. His pokes are slower than IV (but not mentioning pokes are slower in general than in IV)
People saying Bison is good in neutral but the neutral game doesn’t matter in V.
Urien is going to dominate Bison in neutral.
Posting that pro players who are undoubtedly much better than themselves are s**t or in the early tournaments that a former Evo champ was a no name player.
People saying that they have tapped the well with Bison after just a few weeks and despite admitting not being great players they can speak from a position of authority on the grounds that SF V is simple to learn and because there is much less to learn and we can watch high level matches on youtube the old adage that Tier lists only apply to the highest level of play conveniently no longer applies.
The last one I have is the one I have the biggest gripe, because its not about learning just Bison, its about learning the other 19 characters as well. Can anyone honestly say they have complete match up knowledge for all 20 match ups. That they do know all of their opponents set ups, that they are not sitting in unnecessary pressure?, Do you know all of Laura’s and Mika’s set ups, do you know how negative Ken is after his V-Skill cancels, are you getting caught by wake up pressure that’s not actually meaty, what about Vega’s claw switch gimmicks. Are you punishing all of Birdies V-Skills with slide. Do you know when the best situations to use EX.Head Press invincibility to evade meaties. Do you know which characters are more susceptible to S.HK anti air. Are you doing optimum stun off your crush counter combos etc etc etc. Its amazing how small changes can completely transfer match ups.
I’m like 350 hours in with this game and I’m far from tapping the well when it comes to match up knowledge. I dunno maybe I’m a bit dense or am a slow learner and am rubbish at this game but a lot of the posts here some to be just bitching and a few people just want to use excuses rather than put in the time to level up as players.
There’s more complaining than problem solving for damned sure. This place is about as bad as the old SF4 Deejay forum…and DJ was way worse off in that game. Even still, there were knowledgeable, hardcore DJ players there that continued sharing and learning.
Bison is one of the simplest characters in the game.
Honestly, i dont know what else can be done.
I have no idea of what else can i discover.
Beta 1 bison had potential. This one does not.
people just don’t want to understand and see the proofs that he is sadly a bad character; there’s nothing to learn or to discover
first was “I won most of my online fights” you them explain that means nothing; the important are the tournaments that he is incapable to win and professional players that say Bison is a bad character; they come “Problemt X (BAD PLAYER I post how he wins and it was painful to see that) he won in Europe and he say he is going to proof he is a good character” well he dropped him!! and good professionals Mooons, Phendom, Momochi, as well Mike Ross are saying he is not just bad but the worst character in the game EVEN worse than how he was in 4; HE WAS drooped online and recognized by Capcom.
time has passed and the verdict was given he is the worst character in the game!! Now we must demand buffs.
You can learn every match up inside out. Can you honestly say you know them all, that you have put in enough time to learn every detail of every match up that Bison has?
That helps, but it differs from game to game.
Knowing matchups in sfiv and smash seem much more important than sfv bison.
See, because he has poor aa and no escape methods, you ll always be at bad situations where you have to guess. Edit: At guessing, matchup knowledge means nothing.
This game needs more variables
When a game is released and I pick a character, for months, I don’t play to win. I play to learn, to figure things out.
And with Bison… I tried. More than combos.
Tried to figure out his dash.
Tried using DR as a ghetto dive kick.
Tried to see how to use Scissors as combo ender or footsies.
Tried to test Blast as poke, anti poke, anti fireball, antiair.
Tried his vskill as antipoke.
Tried inferno as aa, anti crossup, anti poke.
They nerfed Bison so much they gave little room to improvisation, to think outside the box. They gave very specific purposes for each move with many downsides, similar to how Gouken worked before USF4. I even managed to use all those moves above for my intended situations, but the payoff was brutally low compared to the risk.
Bison’s moveset not giving him enough freedom affects matchup-specific tactics. He has little tools to work with.
Now, about buffs that could make him not only stronger, but more versatile:
- Motion instead of charge so you can use scissors, headpress, blast without warning.
- Devil reverse faster and smaller hurtbox.
- Walkspeed buff
- Dash 17f
- VT Blast hitbox and active frames without VT
- VT Scissors without VT
- Beta 1 Inferno
- EX Blast doesn’t disappear.
- V-Skill faster. No crush counter and counters lows.
I don’t think these ones are happening (none of them), but they would become tools that would make him more unpredictable. These moves would be much more usable outside their primary purposes.
I’m sorry but I can’t agree with you, knowing match ups will always be super important in every fighting game.
Match up knowledge leads to less situations were you forced to guess. An example would be Laura’s throw ender on her bolt charge, I didn’t realize for a while that if she used the throw that switched sides she was actually negative and punishable on a dash in, hence I was sitting in a mix up I didn’t have to be in. I also only recently discovered you can use EX.Head Press to evade C.LP and her command grab from a lot her common set ups. Like wise it can evade many of Ken’s common set ups as well.
I doubt you know all the current variables.
(Besides that, I completely agree)
I’m not saying matchup knowledge doesn’t matter. I’m simply saying it doesn’t matter as much as in other games or when using other characters.
This kind of example (Laura) is simply something that you find out by looking at framedata (dantarion). It’s not the kind of nuances I’m referring to.
When I say matchup specifics, I mean, for example, some notations I had for Bison x Rufus in SSF4:
Scissors LK > Cr.LK is a true menace. He doesn’t have a 3f to stop you.
Rufus’s EX Messiah is 11f, so, going for meaties, I can safely use lights. Cr.LK, however, is less usable. Cr.LP might be the better option. Fast recovery and low pushback.
Crouch teching against Rufus is a bad idea because of his dive kicks. Whenever Rufus has Ultra, do not crouch tech at all.
If Rufus has 3 bars, bait that EX Messiah.
EX Scissors is better than EX Psycho to escape Dive Kick pressure.
Rufus’s Cr.LK was 4f, so it was OK to go for frametraps. 5f cr.lks meant it was a nice idea. 3f is hard.
Ultra 1 punishes every EX Messiah followup. If he goes for LK True blockstring followup, simply S.HP > Cr.LK > Scissors MK.
Rufus can’t DP you, so you don’t need to end strings with Psycho LP. Go for Scissors and double dash.
Jump back against dives is an OK technique.
Stay half screen away to prevent dives over your head. S.HK is excellent against some angles, but prefer S.HP, S.MP or Cr.HP against others.
Some Rufus like to Cr.HP to hit someone that stays too far. Focus > Fwd Dash is a good counter to this.
Throw > walk and J.HP/J.HK may give Bison a cross/fake cross situation because Rufus’s hurtbox is too fat.
Relying on obvious grab attempts against Rufus might be problematic. Instead of teching, he can jump>dive or go for Snake Strike.
This is the kind of matchup specific tactics that I look for. They’re a bit more advanced and represent what playing a certain matchup truly means.
In SSF4, characters had much more tools, so there were more variables and more strategies.
Some characters in SFV still have those nice moves with thousand of uses, like Mika’s v-trigger, but SFV release version Bison doesn’t.
SFV Bison’s moves are difficult to use outside the box. Matchup knowledge will give you a power up, but it’s not that significant.
My 2 cents:
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A better AA one of the best, like Birdies and Cammy cross these two is impossible.
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improve his Vskill; faster!!!
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improve his dash 17f.
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improve his VT, like Necally infinity or not deplete so fast, if we used a special it shouldn’t consume his VT only when we cancel special into special; he is already half dead and VT without meters is useless.
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improve his damage, as high as Necally, Birdie and Zangief; he is 5 in power and his damage is average. Birdie is 4 by the way; Ryu does more damage and is way easier for him to do so.
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Psycho Inferno invincible reversal, allow us to used as an AA; it should work as a DP and unsave on block and I put him in CC state all versión EX aswell. THIS ONE IS CRUSIAL if he suposly is a Wall his opponents should be afraid to be being near him and unlike SF4 this invincible reversal wouldn’t allow him escape.
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make his SK airborne; tired of getting bopped with crouch attacks mid SK (even EX SK).
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make Psycho Axe faster AND plus 2.
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slide should be saved at maximum range.
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blast should have a bigger hit box and the EX one should traver full scream.
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Standig High Punsh faster.
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headpress better track, devil reverse way faster and smaller hurtbox.
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why EX Vtrigger headpress is worst than his regular EX?? please someone fix this.
I do not think that any of these are crazy buffs; he remains with his slow walkspeed, slow normals, no overhead that way is hard for him to open his oponents.