M.bison USF4 , any Rumors of buff/nerf changes?

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
961

This was awhile back, during the first location tests. Combofiend said they adjusted something about the hitstop or hit detection to try to remove unblockables. Gilley had asked him what was going on because their fix was messing with some people’s muscle memory.

It’s certainly possible for some unblockables to remain in the game if they were caused by a combination of different engine issues. But Capcom also adjusted some of the wakeup hurtboxes for the characters who were easier to unblockable (like Guile), so I would fully expect most of them to be removed from the game.

There’s really no way to know for sure until the game comes to consoles, because it’s really difficult to test in the arcade.

962

Well hopefully they got them all. I wonder if there will be an Ultra 2.0 update to hopefully address any issues that we overloooked, missed or otherwise experimental.

Overall I am looking forward to Ultra Bison. Mainly on the basis that he will not be open to endless air abuse anymore, so it would seem. The combination of faster c.hp and s.mp and s.hk and s.hp, and hell attack, looks as though Bison has enough hit boxes where he does not have aerial blind spots in close to close mid. This means he will be able to safely pressure without himself being pressured to do something. I like that! Not to mention, any jump ins that do get through will no longer be able to use DP’s as mixup-get-out-of-jail-free-cards that become pressure strings. They gotta play fair!!

And now Bison has the damage (ON THE GROUND) and the options to win. That’s all I ever wanted was to feel as though if I made better decisions than my opponents an equal number of times, I would be the victor, not fighting an uphill battle where I have to score more points than my opponent does. I don’t care what anybody with so-called high level knowledge says about tiers, Bison has to guess right more than just about every other character in his matchups, so there is no way he has a majority 5/5. Now its looking more even.

I really see Bison as being imbalanced in SF4 as being caused by

  1. blind-spots in his hit box game (when you take into account defense and offense) leading to air abuse
  2. poor practical damage output (which equates mainly to ground-based damage done from fast BnB normal starters)
  3. useless or ineffective specials
  4. poor ultra setup
  5. Tactically limited and inconsistent Ultras

These have lead to the predicament he is in where people just run and lame him out for free, and when he get’s in his can be abused from the air for free, which pressures him to keeping throwing out normals because he lacks an AA, which leaves him open to getting randomed out. Add to that the fact that he spends more time walking forward and you understand why he can’t charge. Poor damage and no comeback is the iceing on the cake.

NOW…he can turtle more, gain charge and STAND HIS GROUND without fear because you dare not jump for free! Hell attack can punish you even without EX, and he has safer AA options.

Add to that the fact that he can ultra you on the ground AND do more damage without meter, and we see why they nerfed the SK and teleport.

The real question is, how will this fall in line with the other buffs characters got, cause we know the changes mechanic-wise, all help Bison, not hurt him?

Edit: now the above is more speculative and and still want to here more from people on this, but with what we already know for sure. Let’s get some difiniative answers.

For those of you who have recording and the Ultra mod on PC, please try the following and bring video back so we can study.

Here is what I want to know;

with the -1 change to lk sk, how will follow-up normals (especially S.HK) work immediately after, in terms of their current function, such as snuffing normals after the SK or stoping jumps? Also how else does the -1 effect things during pressure? What CAN’T Bison do anymore and in what situations? I want to know more specifics.

with respect to the teleport change, when CAN he use the teleport now aside from full screen escapes? Is the pop teleport completely worthless now, or does it still have its uses?

963

Awesome, cheers guys. Suck it and see I suppose.

964

Ok here is all I really want to know right now, because alot is really in the air right now.

I want to know how the -1 effects pressure EXACTLY!! Can someone please post a video with that experiment. We need to see what the -1 will do with Bison’s ability to lock down. How does the change effect his game? IS it really minimal as Combofiend and Tampa Bison biasly say, or does this do major damage to his style?

965

Just think about it a little.
Depends on matchup. Against Balrog or characters with good 3f, no difference. Against Rufus and Rose… you can’t loop them anymore.
Against Vega… nothing changed. The pushback already prevented the loop in AE.

966

The biggest effect it has is on grappler, if you Sk they can ultra you for the round.

at 4:11 you can see that.

967

Oh wow, I see that he get’s ultra’d now. That’s BS

968

the -1 scissor Kick can be Punished by Grapples , look Twahk Ultra 1 do that ,at 4:14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgCOEmqj4iM it is a considerable nerf to MBison . and the teleport is Useless i Hope Capcom change at least the Teleport . and where is the buff 3 frames Cr lp?

969

That sucks shit but we just have to learn not to scissor in that situation. That’s not unexpected really.

What worries me more from that vid is the damamge from the RFA cancel in the first round. Even half ultra, partially scaled should surely have killed there but the second scissors only connected one hit which hurts the damage badly.

Was that situational and being a bit quicker with the ultra would have made it connect fully or is that what we should expect now from an RFA?

970

I’m not too worried, the opponent was T.Hawk who takes 10% less damage. Life scaling would have scaled probably 25% as well, I wish they removed this. After a crumple I’m sure you can always hit full hits, so this Bison just did it too late.

Edit: tried focus crumples into U1 and I was wrong. It isn’t consistent mid screen but backdash from crumple gives 7 hits. Some characters crumple faster or slower as well. Damage from FA2 U1 for 7 hits did 436, with 6 it does 402. Sometimes you don’t need to cancel the focus attack and just Ultra right after.

971

Maybe the people I played Ultra against weren’t good enough, but I hardly got punished for SK. Then again I found myself not using it as much anyway… I kept fishing for counterpokes, and bullshit crossups after KD. The only big punishes I’ve seen are super, and tbh it’s not like Chun is gonna have a full bar every round.

It’s been 5+ years, if you’re unhappy with Bison, just change already. I still go back to him, because Ultra is coming out and everything will change (and less time to play) … but outside of competitive matches, I’m trying Chun/Juri/Sagat/Oni/Ken and a few others. I’ll probably use one of them and Bison as a secondary when Ultra drops, if I don’t like Decapre. Even Cammy/Ibuki are still good. For both, I’ve seen altered setups where they hit in front, and if you DWU, they crossup.

972

Wait a sec guys. I mean Geif can punish a lk SK NOW in AE, so how is this any different? That fool can SPD a blocked lk as well so I don’ see this being a big change. lk sk is not safe in AE in all circumstances, right?

973

Light Scissors is zero on block in all SFIV versions so far, if Gief blocks your Scissors you can hold up and he’ll never be able to grab you with anything. If you’re getting grabbed right now it’s only because you’re letting him.

974

Bison now is mid tier . here some stuff of MBison in Usf4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXuNJY9aOk4

975

As opposed to…?

You all probably already saw it, but here’s the “brand new” Guile matchup:


It starts at 9:40

As expected, EX SK is useless against booms unless you’re making a guess. We already had ex PC if we wanted to guess though, so that makes it kinda pointless. Maybe some insanely good player with some godlike reactions can manage to use it on reaction, but even then, if you are that good, why the hell are you playing Bison?

The Guile matchup is probably 8-2 right now. They said the auto-correct on U1 will be gone though, so that should bring it down to a 7-3 again. Not that crossing him up will be possible anyway, with DWU.

976

I’m playing Poison just for the Guile match-up.

977

from what i saw the matchup with Guile should be easier especially if the autocorrect U1 is getting cut, here is the reasons why

  1. Bison got damage buffs and Guile did not.
  2. Ex-scissor is much better than using ex-psycho against sonic booms. Unlike ex-psycho, ex-scissor will not absorb hits as it goes through and will hit for full damage. so the damage goes from 70 for regular boom and 0 for ex-boom to 150 for both hits of scissor.
  3. Ex-scissor also leaves bison in a very advantageous position.
  4. Bison can now combo into his ultra.

Of course Bison still has to deal with Guile so IMO if the auto-correct stays I think the match is 7-3 guile and if auto-correct goes the match is 6-4. At least Guile will have to think now instead of being able to do whatever.

978

I want to see someone with the PC mod make a video detailing this stuff.

979

I think it is still 7-3 Guile, the issue isn’t damage it’s the fact that Guile can condition you with Sonic Boom on ground and dominate if you take to the air.

My thoughts:

I can see why you might want to use EX Psycho Crusher over Scissors even if one of or even both hits get negated and that would be to get you in closer for some pressure.

I think that Red Focus will be a good way to blow up Sonic Boom, Guile will only be able to armour break with a down charge and the current habit is walking after Sonic Boom or Back fisting.

We are losing the easy unblockables so our throw isn’t as dangerous. This may or may not affect the frame trap game - it will depend on your opponent.

Guile got a 30 damage increase to his U2, extended hit and hurt boxes on his cr.mk and increased air throw range. These definitely don’t make our job easier.

980

Several characters had tons of buffs, look ken, guille, oni, Cviper, Juri ,Chunli, etc however Mbison had some buffs but had enough nerfs that affect their defensive options like teleport that is now unused, and scissors kick that -1 can be severely punished. moreover They nerf the damage EX psycho crusher. why did they do it? I can not understand why they did this with Bison. bison was not top tier, and now that will not be in any way. Bison won how many majors? or even came in second place. if they make a statistically to several championships by the year 2013 -2014 Bison is rarely seen at the Grand Finals. Capcom has honestly been more generous with Mbison in other games like CVS2, SFA2, SF2CE, apparently times that do not come back