I don’t like that a some people seem to be betting on landing cr.mp point blank in anything but a punish situation. How in the world are you going to land a counterhit cr.mp point blank for that matter? The only thing I can think of is someone mashing jab while I am doing a meaty on their wakeup.
I usually land Cr.MP at point blank. What is the issue here? It’s a frametrap. You mix it with grabs to make the opponent press buttons for crouch teching.
I don’t think ch cr.mp to combo is a frame trap. It seems more of a opponent screwed up pretty bad and now we can hurt them situation. Cr.mp (blocked) to another cr.mp and that counterhits would be a frametrap.
It has always been my experience is that CH cr.mp is rare at point blank at least off the first one, I could see cr.mp (blocked) into another and that second one counter hitting that at least has happened a lot before but I wonder if you can still get st.mp off it. I am thinking probably, which is nice. Also wonder if you can do that particular trap from slightly further out and have it combo to st.mp. Cr.mp has way too much pushback on hit lol.
I dunno hyping up the unlikely situation just seems silly to me, nice when it happens for sure but not to be depended on.
Yea, point blank counterhit cr.mp is not a typical situation, but you should have enough frames to walk up cr.mp and build a charge during the mps. I’ll do some more testing tonight and see what I can come up with. Anyone know of an updated PC mod for the capcom cup changes? Really want to test out some theory-fighter combos with the new cr.lp.
I usually go for a jab, cr.lk or Cr.MK then Cr.MP CH into another Cr.MP or S.MK/S.HK
After a knockdown or blocked Jump in, sometimes I wait then Cr.MP.
Try Cr.MK too against waking up enemies. Less pushback and 4 active frames. Doesn’t even need to walk after it to be in throw range.
Basically it is this:
- Every throw tech bait after a blocked jump in or just a delayed cr.mp after a blocked jump in
- EX PC hit dash up > cr.mp
- Empty DR > cr.mp
I dont know if cr.mp>cr.mp>st.mp does still work if you do the frame trap cr.lk > cr.mp … if someone would test it I would really appreciate it.
For me a frame trap is also everything I score a CH via delaying a button or just mindfuck my opponent … and yes this can also be a point blank cr.mp.
It would be beatiful if it also works as a classic frame trap from cr.lp/cr.lk/close lp … if it works … fine … than you guys can stop flaming … thx
Sry … I cant test it
So I was at DTN and talked to Zeus (whom I have known for some time) and Happy Medicine (whom I recently became acquainted with in person) in a three way Bison conference. Zeus thinks Bison will be fine with the mp buff cause he can basically do decent damage off of a c.lk. Happy Medicine disagrees and said “yeah but he will be lame.” I think something along those lines as well. Perhaps bison wont be as bad as we think (for arguments sake). Even if he has what it takes to win consistently, he wont be fun. Half his moves still suck and what point is that. A character that basically just fishes for combos and wins…bla
I think Happy Medicine’s issue with Bison is he will be more defensive/turtle, no real pressure game. He could be broken as hell, and he still won’t be happy I think.
Imo, he wouldn’t be happy because otherwise it would mean admitting he was wrong. Especially after that video he made…
He obviously hasn’t had enough medicine, then.
eeehhhh… that video was made when bison got -1 on sk with no justifiable buffs. now things are a little better i think
In Happy Medicine’s defense, I don’t think he is above admitting he is wrong, assuming Bison turns out good. When Zeus was insistent on Bison being good, given the mp buff, Happy Medicine said that if he is, he will be lame. I second that notion at that point, and Zeus kind of shrugged his shoulders.
At the end of the day, Bison is still lacking. Everyone agrees the EXSK buff is GREAT against charge characters. But that doesn’t address his fundamental issues. I don’t see why fixing some of his broken moves is such a problem. Faster startup on PC, and hell attack, skull diver. wtf.
KingBlackToof updated the USF4 mod, he fixed the wrong framedata on cr.HP (it had 5-6 frame startup, now it’s 10) and added the new stuff( cr.lp 3 frame startup, psycho crusher tail hitbox).
I don’t really think the psycho crusher tail hitbox stuff is correct, since it doesn’t hit twice on crossup like it was reported by Kim1234 and others, but you can already see some problems:
It doesn’t really work in the corner. The psycho crusher ends the moment it touches the end of the screen, and doesn’t hit the opponent.
The 3 frame cr.LP framedata seems correct, since I could do counterhit cr.mk,cr.lp (correct me if I’m wrong, this should be only be possible if cr.LP is 3 frames, right?).
cr.lk, cr.lp, st.lk, st.mp ->SK is pretty easy right now.
We have a easy 221 dmg bnb, rejoice.
Didn’t test the ex.sk stuff, but whatever. You guys can try it out. Here’s the video with the mod.
Yeah, I don’t think he has a problem admitting he’s wrong. He just likes the pressure game, not herp derp gonna sit and have a picnic.
Can someone remind me what the Ex scissors buff was please? Cheers.
With respect to the SK nerf, here is what I believe is the knock-down argument against it.
It is purported by the pro -1 sk nerf supporters like Combofiend that the sk nerd is inconsequential and doesn’t change his game. Tampa Bison said himself that this nerf doesn’t change his game really. Well, let’s say they are right and all of the arguments on the con side of this nerf are mistaken. Well…if it is so inconsequential then what problem is there with reverting it back? After all, if this isn’t REALLY changing his game, than what DIFFERENCE does it make? If it MAKES no difference in his game (allegedly) than it makes no difference if it is switched back does it?
Now the immediate objection is to simply turn that around and say “yes it makes no difference, therefore it makes no difference if we leave it in the game-” to which this would be a valid response until one considers the fact that there are FAR more opponents of this nerf than there are supporters of it. It is obvious that the whole of the Bison community are in an uproar and this is even illustrated by the comments made by Combofiend and Tampa Bison.
So really there is no way around the fact that the majority of Bison players are not happy with this nerf and according to the supporters of the nerf the nerf doesn’t make a difference. To which we respond, and they really have no comeback given that they have spent so much energy in making it seem like the nerd doesn’t matter, then switch it back just to please us.
@exogen
Oh it makes a HUGE difference. Just think of all the scrubby non-Bison players at Capcom-Unity who requested the nerf, and who are now masturbating to their victory. Just leave them happy, this way Bison can be left alone without being nerfed to death because of said scrubs.
Anyway, I’m finally starting to realize Bison will never be a fully viable character. His problems are not (only) in the damage or in the frame data, but in the design. He’s just too exploitable, and unless they change his gameplan a bit, he will always struggle.
After seeing Tampa Bison’s performance at Apex, Dogura’s at Mix Up Night and many, many others, you can clearly see that there is that magic range where Bison can’t do anything, and it’s that distance where SK only hits once. The opponent just has to stand there and do nothing, and react to what Bison does. You can’t jump (obviously), and you can’t slide without being unsafe. You can SK, but at that distance the risk of eating a FA is not worth the 5 chip damage. You can walk up and st.mk, but you’ll never win a game just with that move.
At least, Balrog has dash punches, which do a great amount of chip damage and are not that unsafe. They are focusable, but even then, focusing against him is still somewhat risky because of TAP, which grants you an ultra on counter hit.
Bison needs some tools to get in against other footsie-heavy characters. I’d like PC to be made FADC-able during all active frames, or at least make it -60 on block instead of -200.
And then there is that other magic range, where the opponent can jump as much as he wants. Let’s see if this brand new anti-air will fix this.
@ Duaie,
yeah it makes a difference to the scrubs, but that is the whole point of my argument, to expose that fact.
Giving the PC much faster startup would allow Bison to punish backjumps.
improving his air moves like skull diver, devils reverse, at least to the point where they actually are viable moves will help him on knockdowns, and an improved hell attack will make him Godlike.
Bison doesn’t need to have his whole gameplan changed, just his moves that don’t work to be solid.
You know damned well a headstomp isn’t an overhead, and fine, he’s has a psychocri
The ignoramuses at Capcom are concerned about a few key characters and everyone else just doesn’t really matter. True, Bison will never be a fully viable character, because the same logic that went into making “Yun and Yang a ‘little’ stronger” in the previous iteration dictates that there are considerations that come in to play that have nothing to do with optimal balancing. The place is run by idiots and represented by morons (Combofiend). A quick look at the Japanese arcade leaderboards reveals that the top tier characters are clearly better. Look at the tremendous gap in rankings and overall points. Those at the Cammy, Fei, Seth et al., forums who cry themselves to sleep at night about how difficult it is to win with their characters are absolute clowns.