Yeah you got a point there, vt ex headstomp got its place in the game but as a get off me move its worse
Is there ever a reason to use s.MK when you have s.MP?
I’m starting to feel like i have a bad habit of using s.MK too much. When it seems like frame wise s.MP is significantly better and range is exactly the same. Am i missing something here? is the hurt box for s.MK better that i am not aware of?
S.MK has slightly better range.
S.mk is also better in certain situations as it is not as vulnerable during start-up. If I want to poke a FANG over his poison cloud I use st.mk as it won’t get tagged.
Thanks for the answers to all the previous questions.
I knoq people said headstomp with different kick givee different range but they all seem to just auto target so whats the difference?
And how do they effect dr
Thanks
Yeah Bison’s neutral standing hurtbox only moves forward when S.MK goes active and even at that the forward movement is very slight.
What gives Bison’s S.MP range that’s almost as good as S.MK is that he leans forward during start up which moves his neutral hurtbox quite far forward. Its also what gives Bison the ability to dodge cross ups with S.MP.
Also S.MK leaves a larger hurtbox extended after the active frames end but it only stays extend for 6 frames, where S.MP smaller hurtbox stays extended for 10 frames after the active frames end. Overall S.MP would be slightly more susceptible to whiff punishes.
I’m not aware of different strength kick buttons making any differences to Head Press. The official guide book states there is no difference.
With Devil Reverse I’m not aware of any difference cause by using a different Head Press strength either, but obviously the punch used to activate Devils Reverse controls the distance it travels. LP the least distance, HP the most and MP in between.
Thanks for the further clarification regarding about s.mk vs s.mp no wonder i always feel s.mk is superior poke wise.
I forgot where i saw but theres this tech vid for a certain setup that avoids everything including dp when you press a certain kick button follow by a certain punch button for dr. Any other combination for that particular setup doesn’t work. If he is right about that it must mean the kick part of the headstomp or dr changes the arc somehow. Then again its also possible he mistime his setup when he uses the other kick button?
Not aware of any set up. If you come across the video post it please.
Where can I find the frame data on bison?
Damn I was looking for the v trigger data, thanks any way.
Anyone know what’s the best non v trigger combos for meter gain on block and the best non v trigger combos for stun?
V-Trigger Frame Data is as follows
Pyscho Blast (all normal versions)
11 frame start up
14 active frames
13 recovery frames.
+1 on block.
100 damage and 100 stun.
EX.Pyscho Blast
14 frame start up
Active until it explodes on proximity to opponent or dissipates on leaving screen.
29 recovery frames
0 on block (point blank range)
130 damage and 150 stun.
Pyscho Inferno (all normal versions)
14 fame start p
16 active frames
22 recovery frames
-5 on block.
130 damage and 100 stun
EX.Inferno
18 frames start up
28 active frames
19 recovery frames
+4 on block
160 damage and 150 stun.
LK Knee Press
16 frames start up (frames 6 to 10 completely invincible) (frames 12 to 21 are airborne)
2 (1) 3 active frames (1 frame gap between the first and second hit)
19 frames recovery
+3 on hit
-4 on block
90 damage, 100 stun
MK Knee Press
19 frames start up (frames 6 to 12 completely invincible) (frames 13 to 24 are airborne)
2 (1) 3 active frames (1 frame gap between the first and second hit)
20 frames recovery
+2 on hit
-3on block
100 damage, 100 stun
HK Knee Press
22 frames start up (frames 6 to 15 completely invincible) (frames 16 to 27 are airborne)
2 (1) 3 active frames (1 frame gap between the first and second hit)
22 frames recovery
+1on hit
-2 on block
110 damage, 100 stun
EX Knee Press
13 frames start up (frames 4 to 12 completely invincible) (frames 6 to 16 are airborne)
2 (1) 3 active frames (1 frame gap between the first and second hit)
15 frames recovery
+3 on block
170 damage, 200 stun
(on block or if only second hit connects cancelable into any non Knee Press EX Special move).
Head Press
38 frame start up
Between +1 and +3 on block
120 damage and 200 stun.
EX Head Press
35 frame start up (frames 1 to 4 hit invincible, airborne from frame 8, disappears on frame 19, reappears on frame 26)
Between + 2 and +3 on block
180 damage and 200 stun (170 damage on airborne or juggled opponents)
Devils Reverse
32 frame start up (frame 4 to 24 fully invincible during teleport)
22 active frames
4 landing frames
Between +5 and +10 on block.
100 damage and 150 stun.
EX Devils Reverse
40 frame start up (warps to other side of opponent on frame 13, frames 14 to 29 fully invincible)
24 active frames
4 landing frames
Between +12 and +15 on block.
160 damage and 200 stun
Dash
22 frames (frames 6-13 fully invincible,frames 14-18 strike and projectile invincible, distance travel 15% greater than normal dash, dash can also pass through opponents)
The last V-Trigger difference is that cancelling into special moves no longer requires charge.
Updated comments after viewing below video, shout outs to Spada
When its comes to V-Trigger His moves are a mixed big.
VT Blast is clearly better than regular blast with much large hitbox both vertically and horizontally and 4 additional active frames, his hurtbox is also smaller. In combination with the increased range on dash you should always be able to dash up after landing a blast and do a medium strength meaty against an opponent using normal recovery. Against an opponent you uses back recovery you need to use delayed S.HK, do not use Axe as its too slow and can be hit on start up. Blast also set ups a nice cancel into VT EX. Knee Press mid screen or VT EX Inferno in the corner. VT blast replaces LK. Knee Press as your light strength combo ender and as general block string ender. The EX Version is useful as a get in tool and it no longer dissipates after 1.5 seconds but it would probably have been more useful with the slower travel speed of normal blast.
VT Inferno is better than normal inferno, it does more damage, set up a juggle, has a larger hitbox and is safer on block. Gives the same okizeme game on knockdown that normal Inferno does.
VT EX.Inferno is worse. Its largely relegated to a combo extender or a cancel after a blocked VT Knee Press to give frame advantage for continued pressure. Its too slow to combo into off normal’s but that’s irrelevant because you can always combo into LK Knee Press (or blast in the corner) and then combo into EX.Inferno. Many opponents currently seem unaware that VT Inferno is not as punishable on block and attempt sweep punishes which get punished in turn.
Knee Press is a mixed bag.
They become slower and LK.Knee Press is harder to space safe. Its very easy to forget you have V Trigger Active and end a block string with LK Knee Press thinking you are at the correct space and then get punished. You need to learn to use Blast instead. The invincibility on LK Knee Press does nothing for the move, its too small a gap to get through fireballs. LK Knee Press is pretty much used only in VT combo’s your going to extend by burning two bars of EX Guage.
MK Knee Press doesn’t have much going for it other than a 2 bar combo extender mid screen after cancelling from S.HP. It can be used to get through fireballs but HK and EX are better at then MK.
HK Knee Press is basically a fireball punisher only, but smart players won’t throw fireballs when your sitting on down back, they will sit back and let your V-Trigger run out. Can’t be combo-ed into off anything even on counterhit. Its tricky to time the fireball punishes but if you have 2 bars to burn at the end of it you score 400 damage.
VT EX is an improvement over the normal version. Slight more damage on hit, can get through fireballs and its +3 on block which isn’t as well known as the fact that Ex. Knee Press is +1 on block. It doesn’t loose any combo ability.
All VT Knee Press travel slightly further than the normal versions but as far as I can tell, hitboxes and hurtboxes are identical to the normal versions. With the exception of VT EX. Knee Press the frame advantage on block and hit remains the same as normal versions.
Head Press
Its got a a considerable slower start up than the normal version which is a considerable nerf, but after reviewing the hitbox video below I’ve reevaluated my opinion of this move . Its + on block but your too far away to throw your opponent so its easy for your opponent to just block. However looking at the hitbox video below you can see the hitbox is vastly better on the VT version, much wider and extends well below his hurtbox, unlike his regular version which has tiny hitbox and a hurtbox that extends well below his hitbox. Hard Knockdown on hit.
EX. Head Press is worse again. Its far far far slow then normal EX. Head Press and thus a vastly worse fireball punisher. Its relegated to a random Hail Mary with a very low chance of paying off or as a combo ender.
It 20 extra damage (10 of which it looses when its used in a combo or against airborne opponents) and frame advantage do not compensate for its slow start up. It takes 2 frames longer to get airborne as well, making it worse at dodging command grabs. In the event of a trade against a grounded move it does a farcical 10 damage. Decent frame advantage on block does give you a mix opportunity, and on hit your set up for a meaty Pyscho Axe that’s +2 on block and +7 on hit (but not close enough for a throw mix up), so again doesn’t lead to anything except against fidgety opponents. Looking at the hitboxes below, its actually worse than the normal version because the hitbox is aligned with his hurtbox below him instead of extending below it like the normal version does, so its more likely to be anti aired. At least the hitbox is wider, making it harder to avoid. Hard Knockdown on hit.
Devil Reverse is pretty bad regardless of whether its normal or VT version. The cross up gambit of VT Head Press does not work against any players other than rookies. Its simply too slow and predictable.
Its hurtbox is much improved horizontally than normal Devil Reverse and slight better vertically, but its still terrible overall. The move does not set up juggles unlike normal DR but does give better frame advantage on block.
EX version is actually more susceptible to be stuffed during start up as Bison doesn’t go invincible until after he side switches. After that the speed of the move improves and it gives huge frame advantage on block and does set up juggles but at higher levels of play its nothing more than a gimmick. Looking the hitboxes below, its not as good as a regular EX.DR, with a hurtbox extending slightly below the hitbox.
For hitbox data, This video have an excellent showcase of Bison hitboxes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGB97BYK6go&list=PLxVYfE5Cp4lEMWsJZuZiARyaBUycUozin&index=13
Bison V-Trigger hitboxes are beastly
I assume your asking for block strings that build the most EX Gauge.
In that case S.HK, C.MP xx Blast
A total of 60 meter built or 1/5 of one bar. It is of course not a true block strings. There is gaps that you could be potential reversal-ed by a move with invincible frames but no gap is big enough for a normal to beat you.
The meter build on Knee Press, Pyscho Blast, Head Press and Psycho Inferno when blocked is the same. But Inferno and LK Knee Press are not safe on block were as Pyscho Blast is and Head Press is so slow it would not really be considered as part of a block string.
Best combo for stun is CC, S.HK, slight walk forward, S.HK, C.MP xx MP.Inferno.
This does 288 damage and 465 stun. If you want to spend 1 EX Bar for EX. Inferno you increase the damage 316 and stun to 500, you also get the best Okizeme pressure possible after using either MP or EX.Inferno.
You can also spend the EX bar on EX. Knee Press instead to do 322 damage and 535 stun. This is the best stun you can achieve but the combo is much trickier due to the strict timing in getting charge for the EX. Knee Press, The follow up okizeme is not as good as what you get off Inferno either.
Regardless of how yous start your combo, non EX specials all do the same stun, but MP.Inferno does the most damage and sets up the strongest follow up pressure so its the move to be used when cancelling from C.MP.
If you are willing to spend a bar EX. Inferno gives you a modest increase to stun and damage, while EX.Knee Press gives you slightly more but the follow up pressure is not as good.
Thanks Azza, I’m getting back into the spin of things and this definitely helps.
As a former Sf4 bison player, do you think sf5 bison can be adapted rather fast or are those two (apart from the obvious walkspeed disaster) two entirely different characters? I cant really tell
He’s quite different in V and takes some adaption to get use to. Its the movement speed that takes the most getting use to.
But some similarities do exist.
He’s anti air options are average at best. He’s still weak to cross ups. His air to air priority is good. EX. Head Press is still good as a co-incidental air to air option.
He’s heavily dependent on frame traps and tick throws.
Hey guys, according to v-league, Im having trouble with the Nash, Mika, Balrog and Rashid MU.
Since I wanted to pick up a second, is there any character that works great against those?
Or some general advice which makes those MatchUps easier?
Against Balrog, i would advise playing more reactionary until you get a knockdown. Wait for a dash push, punish and then start offense. If he blocks your mixup, i would try going back and playing it slow.
Against Mika, you can easily outrange her pokes now. Also practice using vskill on her dropkick.
Nash and Rashid are kinda strange to me, not much i can say.