I’m hitting a invulnerable move because the move is not invulnerable you can stop the flip kick if it’s hit just at right, Just as you can stop ryu DP if you hit it right. There’s only two move in the game that you can not stop thats ken’s jab DP since it hits on first frame every other move can be hit.
And, when i say this i mean 1st frame moves to 1st frame moves not ones that give limited invulnerable because even with that the 1st frame move can beat out invulnerable moves : ie Ken jab Dp Vs. Vega flipkick no matter how invulnerable it is kens or ryu DP will always beat it even though the DP are no longer invulnerable.
and i never went out to read frame data i thought it was just common sense to a VST or a HDR player. and talk all you want you and, i and my camera know that i always beat you and, with out BISON. Go to Sleep. oh ya GG’s
Plus you said good bison as far as i know no one thinks your bison is really good just OKay at best, Good Day To You Sir…
Maverick, I can tell in your posts its like you type them in less than 20 seconds and hit the post button.
Ken’s jab dp has 2 startup frames on speed 3. His fierce dp has 0 startup frames. Most of the time jab dp will beat vega’s flip kick since the hitbox is higher than shoto’s vulnerability.
@shari and mackdaddi
T.akiba puts flipkick at 5 frame startup on speed 0, that should mean a ~2/3 frame startup on faster speeds. Are you sure its not vulnerable when the hitting frames appear?
Forgive me. My fault yes the fierce DP is the first frame hit dont really play with ken could not remember which one, “Thanks for clearing that up”, but everything else is just the same as this started out you can always hit VEGA out of the FK it is Invincible no matter what the frame data may say. but this is all im going to say on it i just played with my friend that plays a great VEGA be beats me most of the time but, as the video is going to show 5 out of his 7 flip kick that i stoped him in the middle of the flipkick.
I don’t think anybody has confirmed (from checking in-game) if the HDR hitboxes are different from the ST hitboxes.
I tried to go into HDR, set the gamespeed to 0, go into training, turn hitboxes on, and see if I could eyecheck the HDR hitboxes.
It was too quick for me.
If someone can record HDR footage onto a video file, we can then slow down the video frame by frame and confirm/refute that the hitboxes for HDR and ST are the same for this move.
Something like this:[media=youtube]daMh2pCo1FI[/media]
Mavrick has a keen eye/mind for putting together outside-the-box strategies that get results.
As a Dictator player, I highly value his take on any matchup.
This is the closest thing so far i believe. But it’s WIP.
If there is a change it would have to be unintentional since the Changelist sirlin made only shows removing the stored property affecting the flipkick.
That resource is handy currently for standing and crouching hitboxes. (and some jumping)
And I am sure it will be very helpful once it is worked on more.
The training mode in HDR can be eyeballed for some moves.
And I have found these vids by R | C are AMAZING:
Honda - [media=youtube]qcLJ8U27FmM[/media]
Blanka - [media=youtube]yFtFnwPesh8[/media]
Zangief - [media=youtube]daMh2pCo1FI[/media]
Fei Long - [media=youtube]dS4oHxIIcFo[/media]
Oh, I am not:
saying there is or is not a change to the flip properties/hitboxes
saying what the origin of any possible change might be
I am just saying that I’d like to get a full breakdown of the flip kick properties with HDR hitboxes on it for review.
I actually took static images of Zangief’s Lariats in the R | C video.
The Kick Lariat is 9 different sequential boxes.
The Punch Lariat is 13 different sequential boxes.
I arranged the images on a spreadsheet horizontally to help give me an idea of how/where I can hit him.
I did the same for Zangief’s Green Hand and Hop.
I would be very surprised if the hitboxes are any different, other than where they have been changed for a specific rebalancing reason. I think unless there were changes published by sirlin here http://www.sirlin.net/articles/street-fighter-hd-remix-vega.html it’s safe to assume that hitboxes are all the same as they were in ST. It’s the same engine that drives HDR, and the artwork was done in such a way that the newly drawn sprites overlap the old ones almost exactly in most cases, so there should be little or no difference.
Somebody with a capture card recording them would be excellent though. Those youtube clips of attacks all slowed down and pause-able are a great idea.
The training mode in HDR feels like it was unfinished and seems very lacklustre to me. It’s such an important part of modern fighting games, and it definitely wasn’t shown enough love in HDR, for a product that was such a piece of fan service.There should be an option to pause the game and remove the GUI from the screen so you can check out the hitboxes in detail. A record mode for setting up specific tactics from your opponent is another glaring omission too, and a 2 player training mode via XBL or PSN would be really useful to have.
It would be nice if capcom patched them in at some point, but i can’t imagine they’ll be spending any more money on HDR going forward…
Although it’s very rare, I have seen Vega’s Flipkick get hit by Bison’s j.Forward, and not as a crossup either. I think it happens when Bison does the j.Forward very early (just after the peak of his jump) and when Vega also does Flipkick really early (as if trying to hit Bison out of the air with the 2nd hit of the Flipkick instead of the 1st, deep hit where the invincible frames are). It’s about the same timing as Bison trying to hit Blanka’s wakeup reversal V Roll. I’ve never done it myself tho.
I don’t mean hitting Vega during the Flipkick recovery, I mean hitting him after Flipkick’s invincibility has run out. Like trading with Ryu’s Shoryuken.
There’s no question the flipkick still has invincibility since it still beats ground-based meaties every time as a reversal. Just try reversal flipkick against dic’s heavily meaty c.HK.
As for what’s being referred to here, I’m with blitzfu. dic’s j.HK looks like it could beat a post-invincibility flipkick at a very specific position.
Well, no thats not it at all. I have beatin’ VEGA durning the start up of the FK almost everytime you just have to be in the air at the right time for you to hit his flipkick just as its starting off.
Don’t really know about VST i never really played that game but, in HDR the FK can deff be stopped durning start up.
Well the general consensus and knowledge is that the Flipkick is invulnerable at startup.
Perhaps you could record yourself or find a video of it being beaten at startup since it’s very hard to believe since most of us “know/believe” it is invulnerable.
What is the most reliable way to counter chun’s jumping forward? Is there a jump back + “move X” I can do that trades most of the time. I’d be happy, at this point, with just that lol.
Jumping Strong punch is your friend versus chun. Try to anticipate her jump tactics, and don’t let her pressure you into a corner with LK and ground pokes/throws, deal with her using air to air normal attacks instead.
Jumping forward with LK or MK and pressuring into a throw setup is one of her key tactics in the matchup against dictator, so rather than jumping away from her, jump forward early once she looks like she’s in range and is about to jump at you, and immediately hit your MP. If it misses in the air, or if she doesn’t jump you can still throw a second punch before you land to cover yourself if needed, or at worst trade with whatever she tosses out.
You’ll usually beat her clean in the air if you’ve anticipated correctly. If it trades you’ll do more damage than she did, which is fine, and if you do hit cleanly you can juggle by jumping a second or third time for up to 3 hits, and even juggle them again with a hit or two of your super after that if you have meter. One or 2 of these connecting is usually enough to train an opponent into thinking before they try it again, it’s suddenly not a no-risk attack anymore.
Bison’s jumping forward LK works ther same way against her in the air too, it’s a little safer sometimes cause you don’t have to worry so much about timing it, it just stays out all day, but the payoff is nowhere near as good as if you land a j.MP cleanly, because of the juggle. Jump straight up roundhouse is good too, and it’s big damage/stun.
With either of the jumping forward attacks, the key is to anticipate the jump and be in the air before she is. Very often if she’s higher than you you’ll take the hit, but the last place you want to be is blocking on the ground when she tries this setup because you’ll end up being tick thrown or poked to death. If you have no other option, block the jumping attack on the ground and hold up+back & hit roundhouse to try to jump away from her next attack, or if you’re brave go for a counter throw.
Throw her every chance you get in this matchup. Throwing is one of her main ways to hurt bison, and you need to keep the damage output high to stay in the game.