M. Bison ftw (Dictator Thread)

Well I was wondering if it would leave him at negative or postive?

I think VirtuaFighterFour covered it very well below.

What moves you use, and if/when you can use them are all based on a LOT of variables.

Even in the case of moves that hit crouching opponents, you need to specifically use a move that will both hit a crouching opponent AND land (or otherwise not be hittable) before the active frames of that opponent’s refersal are active.

VERY well put.
And I agree, it is a pretty daunting task.

Fortunately, I would start with just covering Dictator’s safe jumps. :slight_smile:

Also, with ST/HDR (unlike sF4 which will conceivably rotate out with SSF4) once you’ve documented it, you’re pretty safe at not having to update it (or at least massively update it) for a long time.
So while it’s a big hill to climb, at least once you done it you can expect it to last a long time.

Like my work on streetfighterdojo.com.
The ST vid links are easier to find, reliably better quality, and probably going to be useful for years and years.
In contrast, the SF4 vid links are much harder to find, the quality is unreliable and can change radically over time, and probably will be worthless if the community moves on to SSF4.

The funny thing is that the Vega thread had a long discussion on how difficult Dictator is for them to fight.
And one of the HDR tier charts being debated/compiled recently has Dictator (tied) as Vega’s WORST matchup.
I even gathered and presented research on the matchup FROM THE VEGA SIDE to give them pointers in the match-up. (I have yet to do this from the Dictator side of the matchup)

I used to do VERY well in the matchup, so much so that I never really bothered spending any time trying to pay attention to it.
Now Baconology has beaten me pretty badly in our recent matches, and I will probably have to take a look at this matchup and get it down. (which is a good thing)

I like how the Dojo videos are set up for each char vs char match up with the results underneath.

Very Simple your(Bison) footsies kicks keep Vega grounded all the time if he flies dont try to knock him down with JM punch just fly to the other side, if your use to doing the JM punch and it works for you do it as much as you can. I use it on all VEGA and it works very well on him once his on the ground i do a cross jump MK on to two walking forward LK into Cr MK into standing MK into knee press and repeat or throw it works wonders.

Also knocking Vega out of the sky gives you a great setup if you do a nicly timed jump HK to Vega just as his getting up most Vega players will try to anti air you out of your kick but, in HDR vega flip kick is not INVINCIBLE so your timed JHK will beat out his flip kick just as you land it since it’s Vega go into Cr MK then SC for the daze and then hit it again for the WIN. works everytime

This isn’t the case, unless Sirlin made some undocumented changes to the flip kick (which to my knowledge he did not). Flip kick is still invincible until frame 12 on all three flipkicks, and they all hit on the sixth frame.

Not to dispute your strategy, I just feel this needs to be made clear.

EDIT: My source was Geo’s YBH scans for Claw.

It should have some invincible startup frames.

It’s invulnerable.

You might be doing a safe jump or they are missing their reversals but Flipkick itself has lots of invulnerable frames.

This is a snapshot from the same hitbox scans resource.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4550/clawflipkickst.jpg

It looks like It has no vulnerable or attacking hitboxes at all for the first part, (6 fames, as per snatcher’s post), then just a hitting (red) hitbox which makes it dangerous and invulnerable (there’s 12 frames before you can actually hit it)

When it becomes vulnerable though, (on frame 12) it’s very vulnerable towards the back.

Correct me if i’m wrong, but this means that either:

(1) it’s a free escape from a meaty crossup jump in attack for claw if it’s done late, but would be vulnerable to a ground counter attack from a standing kick because bison has landed/recovered first, or:

(2) it’s a good anti air but can be beaten at the back if it’s not timed late, because the invulnerable frames would have passed. (don’t forget it’s moving forward, away from a crossing up opponent)

Has anybody tried a meaty deep crossup jumping forward into a standing roundhouse on claw to see if it’s an option select versus the flip kick? if the jumping forward hits, you win on damage, if it whiffs, claw will still be flip kicking and should eat the st.roundhouse (assuming that the standing roundhouse doesn’t come out as a backwards move, which is always a pain in the arse when it happens)

This is pure gold. Thanks a million for this info, i’m going to digest it over the next while, and work it into my game. I think it’s about time i learned to use claw too, just to get a better understanding of his strengths and weaknesses (plus he looks like a pretty fun, tricky character to play with).

(1) it’s a free escape from a meaty crossup jump in attack for claw if it’s done late, but would be vulnerable to a ground counter attack from a standing kick because bison has landed/recovered first, or:

Very much this but if the aim is solely to escape the crossup using short instead of roundhouse has very fast recovery and might be hard to punish.

I’ve never actually been hit out of flipkick against a jumpin since the invulnerability is insanely good. But many times eaten damage during the recovery.

shari and baconology murder my dictator, but one thing that hasnt been mentioned too much is jumping away HK as a counter to walldive - it does very nice damage and lands you a good distance away.

im surprise Vegas dont like the stomp, i get airthrown and walldive airthrown out of a LOT of stomps.

I try and use crossup Devil Reverse on vega when he’s waking up, if you get it right I’ve had the flipkick whiff, or he eats damage. It needs to cross up though. If you get a knockdown where you can DR very early (so you go off the top of the screen) it has the best chance of working.

Standing forward or rH is my best weapon against Vega, just counterpoke him when he whiffs.

this matchup is in bisons favor. st mk and hk work well. the jumping away hk can work also , but the j. mp is the way to go in this macth. what i do is when i think vega is about to jump in the air i jump with 1 j. mp and wait, only do 1 punch though because if vega stays grounded you can land with the 2nd punch and of course TOD combo or if to far away just mp st lk throw etc. also if vega gets a walldive you can use standing mp and with bisons fist at the apex will stuff vega takes good timing. also i only cross vega with the mk, rh is to slippery.

it’s NOT a safe jump because im still well in the air when they stand up and just like RYU’s DP the flipkick and be stoped but, unlike ryu’s DP there no trade in hits that’s why BISON always win out. Infact i hit it on you several time if i remember right

For this to be true.

All we know about the hitboxes and framedata about flipkick would be wrong.

No the frame data is correct just your belife in VEGA’s 12 frame invincibility is wrong. Im telling just like ryu he can be stop in the first two frames

LOL.

my condolences

So could you then explain how you are hitting an invulnerable move ?

im sensing some minor miscommunication

maybe if mavrick read his posts before he posted them(hopefully he doesnt already).

damn maverick for somebody who went out and read frame data (LOLOLLLLLL) u sure do have trouble with other good bisons… ie… MINE pussy.

Once again i would like to take this moment to share a bit of information.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_usage#faq_vb3_troublesome_users

Carry on.

Oh man I wish I had know about that before she started talking about her pussy, which was gross and inappropriate.