Three rules for fighting honda:
- Don’t get him wet.
- Don’t expose him to bright light.
- Whatever else you do, never, **ever **feed him after midnight.
I don’t know if this has been verified.
However, it is easy to check.
Pick Dictator vs. Dhalsim in training in the Ryu stage.
Push the opponent into the right corner, crouch in front of them, then stand up and throw away from you as you stand up.
Keep backing up you’re starting point until you are no longer getting a throw: this is outside throw range.
Note the area on the ground.
Now switch to the other character and try to throw/grab from that distance.
Change the distance until you get the throw.
Post results.
It’s not that easy though, is it? If you set up in training mode like you suggest, you can’t move dictator back and forth at a pixel-level accuracy, which is apparently the scale that the T.Akiba data uses. I don’t know how you could draw an accurate conclusion about throw range using just training mode.
Unless I’m misinterpreting what you’re saying?
Actually, it works pretty well.
Just edge back and forth on the stick until you get your character’s feet aligned slight increments along the ground art.
Also, use the distance between the edges of each characters feet as a guide.
You may not get exact frame data, but you can sure as heck determine approximate throw range and who has the better throw priority.
I did this back in HF to check throw ranges and push back distances of different moves of various characters relative to hard data that was posted, and the technique worked very well.
The data said that throw range is relative to each matchup, with some characters having certain matchups where their throw was nerfed to lose to someone who generally had a much shorter range.
Using the technique I listed, I was able to demonstrate this cleanly.
You want to figure out whether Dhalsim’s new medium punch grab has greater range than either Dictators’ medium or hard punch throw?
This will tell you that.
And it will also help you approximate by how much it wins/losses.
I also used this technique in HF to figure out how much wiggle room I had to throw characters within, and at what distances I was in throw danger.
It’s very good for getting a pretty precise understanding of this.
If you have trouble with precisely aligning Dictator at a certain distance because he moves too fast, you can always try having Dhalsim push him to that distance, since a Dhalsim push is fairly slow.
T.Akiba measured to the very pixel and his method is far more scientific and accurate than merely visually reading the throw ranges in pixels with your eyes.
I’m sorry but are we really entertaining the idea that you can see a pixel’s difference with our eyes?
Your point?
If you want an answer to the question asked, then go into the game and eyeball it: it works to answer the question, it works to give you a functional awareness of the throw range differences BETTER than just actual numbers on their own.
If you want a complete and precise statistical breakdown then you are without a solution unless you can track someone down who can and will do that for you.
I love data probably more than almost anybody I know.
But I’m also a HUGE fan of practical results.
For the question asked, there is an easy “eyeball” ghetto way to get the answer.
That’s not what I was suggesting.
However, we CAN actually see pixel differences with our eyes.
Just cap an high quality image and check it out in Paint/PS.
So I ran into tardo/Shezbot25’s Fei earlier and he was hitting me with short chicken wings over and over and over again… (it felt like an infinite although it can’t be).
I tried jumping back with MP, scissors, PC, normals, etc., and couldn’t see to break it. Anyone run into this and have a go-to way of dealing with it?
Wow you are stubborn.
You can’t see a pixel’s difference in the game while it is running at 60fps. And you can’t see a pixels difference when the game is slowed to down to a pause. You still wouldn’t see a pixel without zooming in which, in a digital word, alters the image. T.Akiba’s method is useful. Your ‘ghetto’ method of going into training mode is pointless and most likely worthless unless you prove to everyone that you can replicate T.Akiba’s data within margins of statistical significance on a consistent basis. And the margin for error is zero in this case.
If you take an image capture of the game, pause it, and then zoom in completely, then you aren’t viewing a pixel anyways. If you zoom in on an image at 1000x magnification, then you are not viewing a single pixel any longer, that one pixel that you are trying to focus on, becomes 100x times larger both vertically and horizontally. It is digitally stretched 1000x over and no longer is a pixel at that magnification.
Therefore you aren’t seeing a pixel’s difference at any point when you zoom, you are seeing the digital extrapolation of an image, stretched across thousands of pixels on your screen’s viewing area.
At 1/1 scale you cannot possibly judge the difference of a pixel accurately on a reliable level of consistency. You must overcome our physical limits using digital methods, such as screen capturing, pausing, and zooming.
The question asked in this thread was, “if Sim’s hold range was greater than Dictator’s throw range in ST, but his hold range has been nerfed in HDR, how can I tell which range is larger”?
Using your ‘ghetto’ method wouldn’t do anything. If you think that your ‘ghetto’ method is so reliable, enough that you don’t need T.Akiba’s methods to tell, then why not use your method to solve the problem and post your results here?
But you don’t need either method to solve it actually. Someone just needs to ask Sirlin how many pixels that Ken’s hold, or Sim’s hold, were shortened by, and then apply those new values to T.Akiba’s existing data for ST.
According to the chart, Sim can throw or hold Dictator from 92 pixels, and Dictator can throw Sim from 87 pixels away. So that means that there if a five pixel difference between their throw ranges, with Sim having the advantage. So if Sim’s hold was shortened by five pixels it would even out his hold range with Dictator’s throw range. If Sim’s hold was shortened by six pixels or more, than Dictator would have a larger throw range compared to Sim’s hold. Sim’s normal throw however still has the same range from ST so he’ll still win that one always.
The only way to honestly prove that Sim’s hold is shorter than Dictator’s normal throw range is to painstakingly capture images and blow them up ensuring maximum accuracy. I just cannot accept the feasibility of your method working out to the same degree of accuracy as T.Akiba’s method.
I just hate it when people post bad/incorrect/misleading info. 
The ghetto method works for getting results you can play by in game.
There is an emulator I used that can strip off individual or groups of images from arcade games, you can also use space bar to advance by single frames. (but I can’t frickin remember the program currently, if anyone knows it tell me cause I need to use it again:
I used it for the ST art on streetfighterdojo.com)
Isolate the image(s)/spacing/etc. you want of the character(s) in ST.
Then put it in paint and make a pixel ruler to gauge the lengths.
Again, it’s ghetto, but it should work to some degree.
Are you kidding me?
I knew certain priorities in the game before I saw the hit boxes in Yoga Book Hyper.
I know my car is longer than my TV without a tape measure.
Ok, I loaded up the training mode HDR with classic art and here is what I got:
Dictator Strong/Fierce throw max range = edge of Dictator toe is midway between Dhalsim’s edge of shadow and Dhalsim’s edge of toe
Dhalsim Fierce throw = edge of Dictator’s toe is small bit outside edge of Dhalim’s shadow
Dhalsim Strong Grab = just inside where edge of Dictator’s toe overlaps vertical line denoting inside of Dhalsim’s toe
So…
Dhalsim Fierce Throw > Dictator Strong/Fierce Throw > Dhalsim Strong Grab
As long as you’re using a .png then the colors/pixels on the image won’t change.
Just use the ST art’s pixelated goodness to figure out how many pixles on the screen equals 1 pixel in ST game art when blown up.
Copy that ST game art pixel size as your reference and make a ruler with it.
But the game is the same frames of art over and over.
Use digital method to gauge the pixels, then you can simply use that as reference when looking at the game for some things, and screenshot individual stuff like throw ranges when you need to.
I have now done it and listed results as written above.
I didn’t do it before because HE could have done it himself:
- me not spending time on it
- him learning a tool to use for similar questions
That sounds like great info. 
Another method (and a pixel precise one) to answer the question.
Check out my method in training.
It’s actually really easy.
When you see a position onscreen where Dhalsim whiffs his Grab and Dictator gets his throw, you know Dictator has a better range.
By moving each character forward and backward by slight amounts, you can find out where each characters max throw range is.
And my way also gives you a very good feel for what range you need to be at from an opponent in a game situation to get the best results.
I had that problem - especially with short flame kick mixed in. piano to get a reversal throw works quite well, and against a lot of chicken wings (prob not close short ones) cr.forward will give you room to escape.
might be worth trying devil reverse, too - time it JUST as he is about to hit you to get the invincibility frames.
I appreciate your response. So in this situation, if I was trying to get a reversal throw I should press away and piano MP and HP over and over?
Can someone give me a hand with this!
Check out these vids:
http://streetfighterdojo.com/superturbo/dictator/dictatormatches.html#DeeJay
David Sirlin (Dictator) vs. Afrolegends (Dee Jay)
Match 1
Round 1: Dee Jay
Round 2: Dictator
Round 3: Dictator (forfeit)
Match 2
Round 1: Dee Jay
Round 2: Dee Jay
[media=youtube]mIE2PHguCnk[/media]
Taira (Dictator) vs. ??? (Dee Jay)
Round 1: Dictator
Round 2: Dee Jay
Round 3: Dictator
[media=youtube]KLO35aWgNRI&feature=channel_page[/media]
[media=youtube]Ek5qOiV_-dQ[/media]
I would try the tactics one uses against Guile - lots and lots of standing roundhouse pokes, cr. forward pokes while charging scissors for punishment.
standing roundhouse should stuff max out at the right range. if DJ jumps in jump back and mp or make him land on a crouching forward.
meaty cr.forward is quite good vs DJ as well, ive found. a lot of it is spacing (like Guile) so if you can mess up his slide distance you can hit him with pokes all day long.
and like all characters, stomp, stomp, stomp…ive started using roundhouse stomp against jumping opponents, it has HUGE priority.
Zaspacer you’re a legend for useful videos. I’ve been Having trouble with this matchup lately, i find i have to be really on form to keep pace with a good deejay, and i’m starting to think bison is at quite a disadvantage here. I’d say 6.5 to 3.5 in deejay’s favour, just because he has so many options to shut down bison’s staple attacks.
Serrano pepper: Tchesae who i play regulaly has a really excellent deejay, and he’s got really fast reaction time to most of the things i do. I played him again last night, and after a few frustrating warm up games (for me) the set got even and he coached me in some of the things he feels i should be doing versus other good bisons he plays. Aside from all the good stuff already posted, here’s what i figured out works for me.
Keep the pressure on.Use lots of standing MK and HK pokes from almost mid distance, they beat or trade a lot of his low punches and pokes.
Use headstomp and mix it up as much as you can but don’t be predictable and don’t stomp from full screen, he can reaction LK upkick you.
If he knocks you down and crosses you up be very careful about trying to escape, counter, or DR out, because he has HUGE damage potential off crossups. I prefer to just block his combos, take the chip damage and watch out for a tick throw instead of a special tagged on to the end.
His crossup mk, CR.lp x2, slide, max out block string is totally safe, don?t fall for it or try to counter, you?ll eat the max out because of it?s ridiculously fast start up time.
A few shenanigans I use that work well are:
Headstomp>crossup>skull diver>st.HK till they get used to it, then mix in Headstomp>crossup>cross back>throw, or headstomp>land mid distance>slide to catch them low trying to react to the skull divere they were expecting.
Sometimes a jump in with an early MK in mid air seems to hit early a lot because of it?s speed and priority, and you can tick throw after it when you land if you get the timing down.
One of my favourites is the cr.MK, cr.MK xx MK scissors combo on wakeup, just poke early with the first cr,MK so you hit with just the tail end of it, and you?ll be able to combo into the next cr.MK and xx into scissors. The timing is tricky, but you have loads of time to hit confirm before committing to the cancel into scissors, and it?s totally safe if it?s blocked. It?s a great pressure tactic on wakeup on anyone with bison, but it?s particularly useful against deejay. You can follow up a throw with a jump into position in front of them for that shenanigan on the entire cast, and it?s a great way to pressure them into making a mistake on wakeup.Unless they?ve got a wakeup reversal that hits on the first frame, this will stuff them every time.
General advice, pressure him lots, watch his pokes and use standing kicks to counter, mix it up lots, don?t be predictable, throw him any chance you get, never get cornered, and use j.MP in the air to cut down on his jumping attacks, and you should be OK.Crouching MK is really useful as a poke.
Oh and if you find yourself being zoned and shut out or kept at full screen away, try a fake slide into headstomp/DR to close distance and put pressure on.It’s a good low to high mixup and it’s still pretty unusual to see it in HDR, nobody really makes the most out of fake slide yet so far, bu it’s really useful and tricky.
Anybody got anything else? I could really use pointers and shenanigans for this matchup too.
Thank you mack,zaspacer and virtua I was going to call 911 and missing persons if you guys didn’t reply:xeye:
Does anybody have any info on the mechanics of the devil’s reverse, other than the stuff i’ve posted here before?
I know all about the differences in using either :uf:, :ub:, or :u: to start the move and how each one affects trajectory. I’m trying to find out what the upsides & downsides to using differrent punch buttons to activate the move are. The only noticeable difference i can see is if i use LP to activate the initial “jump” part of the move the recovery time when the move lands is a couple of frames shorter and i’m free to move sooner, so i use that one most of the time. I’ve read that the different buttons cause different mid air arcs for the “punch” part of the move, but i can’t see or feel any functional difference in speed, arc, or strength based on what i press.
I’ve gone through T.Akiba’s data and there’s no mention of it that i can see, i’ve played with it in training mode, and it’s really tough to find any info on it on the web. Are some variations of it more controllable or something depending on the punch(es) used?Has anybody got more info??
Mack,I’ve nothing productive to offer that you wouldn’t already know on the DR matter but I just wanted to say I love the avatar,nicely done,especially when compared to my 2 minute job of sticking a pint of guinness in Bisons hand!
Heheheh, thanks man. You can’t see it on the avatar cos it’s tiny, but i replaced the flying skull on his cap with a flying shamrock too 
http://img225.imageshack.us/i/mbeire.jpg/
Go on the fighting irish:clapdos: