Not all time, but people have been reporting that it happened quite frequently.
sorry one last question, is ex head stomp plus on block? I’ve always gone with cr lp after a blocked ex stomp, and i’ve never been beaten out of it or traded, i’m wondering if its because it is plus on block or if my opponents are using something really slow to react
Prima guide says +2, but I think it depends. Maybe Ryu is +2 and Birdie +1 or +0?
What do you mean about the plinking? You can simply do the Psycho Axe at regular speed after a CC. Unless there’s something I am missing here. The Pyscho Axe is what I normally use after a CC anyway, unless I am at point blank range, since it moves you forward.
As far as cr.MP after st.HK or Psycho Axe, yeah. That’s common knowledge.
So I was training just messing around with the special cancels in VT. and I just found out that any specials when canceling they don’t have to be EX versions off a normal. For example doing cr.mp xx scissors (or Blast) (HP Blast also combos) needs no charge. I thought you could only cancel ex versions of the specials from another special. Another example inferno xx scissors or head stomp. Am I the only one just finding the out?
Is that a random occurrence or can it be reproduced?
Tried to reproduce with consistency. Failed so far.
This friend of mine reported that lots of my HPs were cross-ups.
If that keeps happening, I’ll try to find out how to do it on purpose.
All the cross up EX Head stomps for me have been random. To the point where they have to push buttons for it to work.
They must likely move forward very slightly or a move moves their hit box forward and it registers cross up.
Some things I have learned, might have been posted already but I missed it:
-If you hit a CC st.hk, instead of doing st.hk CC downforward.HP, do st.hk slight walkup st.hk, cr.mp MP inferno for the same damage, but 40 more stun. If you manage to hit st.hk from really far, then you should use downforward.hp.
corner throw 4f safejump/meaty setup: normal throw, dash st.hk, neutral jump (jump normal)
If quickrise, they face meaty st.hk (you are +6 after throw into dash, so the st.hk leaves 3f gap), and if they don’t quickrise you get an easy safejump. To all non-bison players, that means ALWAYS quickrise throws.
midscreen 4f safejump (if no quickrise): hold upforward and upon second jump, you get a safejump. Only useful if other person doesn’t know about it/accidentally doesn’t quickrise, you might be punished in the air a well so be advised w/ this.
CC sweep 7f safejump, cr.mp, cr.lp neutral jump. Might be a better one but it’s really hard to find. If someone can find a way to wait somewhere between 27-30 frames after the sweep you might be able to get it.
stomp has significantly less charge time than blast/scissors. You can jump, start charging, and immediately upon landing do the stomp/devil’s reverse.
I don’t think bison has a large throw range particularly. The reason it seems that way is because he is one of the characters in the game (along w/ grapplers, rashid, nash, karin, might be missing someone) who has a very tight tic throw string, namely from cr.lp/st.lp/cr.lk into throw. Cannot be jabbed out, must be teched/jumped/backdashed/DP’d out of.
chip kill: HP inferno VT HP inferno super for 124 guaranteed damage
good mixup: cr.lp, slight walkback st.lp LP blast. Will beat throwtech/delayed throw tech, block reversal DP, will beat neutral jump since blast comes out, loses to reversal low/3f/4f normal.
Backdashing after crossup works really well to beat throwtech and potential DP. You can get st.hk but no followup, but you can react to the throwtech and do cr.mp MP inferno. Backdashing in general works really well to beat many things, especially against antsy players who always feel the need to do something (DP/throwtech/button press).
If you stick out st.mp, react to the counterhit under your health bar and then go for downforward.HP.
Good stuff. Regarding the midscreen 4 frame safe jump, what is the situation from? forward throw/back throw or inferno? i’m assuming forward throw but idk
An up close mix up I’ve been using while in VT:
5hp into Sk, 5hp into dash up throw, or 5Hp into ex headstomp. The animation on dash/certain specials makes it somewhat confusing to deal with. It also works pretty well off of a 2Mp.
Not sure if anyone’s found this already but I found out that after any BnB ending with LP or MP inferno:
-On neutral quickrise you can immediately dash in and meaty axe.
-On backwards quick rise you can still meaty axe them if they quick rise backwards, but you have to wait a few frames (not sure how many) after you dash otherwise you’ll whiff.
You can get a crush counter if they’re hitting buttons on wakeup or if they block you’re in the range for tick throw as long as they don’t jab after immediately block stun ends (confirmed with Ryu’s s.lp and cr.lp). My reflexes are on the slow side but I’m pretty sure someone with quicker reaction times can change react accordingly depending on which quick rise it is.
On a side note, they need to update the recovery settings to alternate between just neutral and back quickrise, when I set it to random the number of times I get no quickrise on the dummy is staggering.
Am I the only person that sees the endgame of st.HK being a sitting duck normal?
I’ve been fiddling around with characters with better walkspeed and buttons…st.HK is not getting properly punished yet, but when it does…god help us.
I literally never use that move. Nothing about it beats st.HP in utility.
yeah I meant from forward throw sorry. In general, Bison is quite interesting with just the sheer amount of safejumps he can do.
Someone messaged me asking for more tech. so I’ll just list random stuff that I find. A lot of it is obvious, but I realize it should still be stated because there are a lot of newcomers.
Corner only:
stand.fierce HK scissors xx VT cr.mp VT blast xx EX inferno xx EX stomp (this combo does more damage/stun than the cr.mp into LP scissors combo)
devil’s reverse, LK/MK scissor kick (does more damage than blast)
VT blast I think is +1 on block.
Mixup related stuff:
Mixup from HP inferno into VT: HP inferno xx VT, dash under into any light normal for crossup, or throw. To fake the crossup, do a small delay (I personally listen for the second hit of inferno then do it) into HK scissors. Because both have deceptive, teleport startup so its very hard to react to this mixup. You are +2 after the dash.
Mixup from EX inferno into VT: Stand at far distance close to the tip of it, VT cancel on first hit. If you distance it right and then you can either land in front or land behind them. You are+4 after the dash, this allows st.mp to work. The HK scissors timing needs to be altered, usually around the 2nd/3rd hit of inferno. You can also go for neutral jump/crossup but beware of shoryukens.
If you wanna fake this entire mixup, you can do LP inferno VT cancel, and then quickly go for throw. Because there are only 3 hits it will throw them off. Neutral jump kinda early if you predict a counter throw tech, and then do full punish. This one’s kinda gimmicky.
In VT mode, you can do j.MK and then dash upon landing for a double crossup. The invincibility in the middle should save from 3f normals/throws.
For the hp inferno mixup that’s if u use it in a block string like st mp cramp xx hp inferno?
Also tested the corner forward throw 4 frame safe jump. It’s awesome. However sometimes u need to throw out the jump hp/hi earlier. If u throw it too close to the ground the reversal can beat it
Also regarding mid screen forward throw setup. It’s a safe jump if they normal rise but can I react to a quick rise or back rise before I do the second jump? Like if I see them rolling I know not to approach with the second jump or am I already airborne at the time and forced to commit to it
Sorry for the double post but I was testing the corner forward throw set up more and if they quick rise my meaty st Hk gets beaten by karins crouching jab. Also, it loses to her ex reversal on quick rise
If i try st mp instead of st Hk then I get the counter hit on her jab, lose to reversal, and if she gets up slow then the neutral attack whiffs in this case.
Shouldn’t st Hk beat her cr lp because of priority?
I don’t think st.mp/cr.mp HP inferno is a tight block string, nevermind a true blockstring; possible to jab out. Nonetheless it can still work. If it were me, I would just do st.fierce HP inferno right away, then cancel to VT. If it hits, you get EX scissors confirm, its tighter (but not by much) and then do the mixup.
I don’t think it matters how you throw your j.fierce, I always do it late and get the safejump.
Regarding the forward throw safejump, you cannot backroll throws in SF5. AT ALL. Not even command grabs. If you grab them, it can only be quickrise or a regular knockdown.
In terms of reacting to the backflip vs. standard wakeup, its pretty hard if not impossible. The gap is literally 5 frames between the two, and by the time you react you’re timing will be completely screwed up.
Karin’s cr.jab, it shouldn’t be counterhitting you. I just double checked in case I screwed up hard, but yeah I just did it and completely CH karin with it (set Karin to wakeup cr.jab, did the same setup and CC her.) It should beat 3f normals easily. It won’t beat Karin’s DP obviously cause its a DP.
In general: Bison’s tight strings change a lot when versing 3f normal characters vs. 4f normal characters. Against 4f normal characters (roughly half the cast), any light into st.MP has to be respected, and st.MP to cr.MP has to be respected as well (disregarding things like shoryukens), et cetera. Against 3f normal characters none of these work since they will be interrupted. And yes the reason these work is because of the priority system. (Actually, the whole theme of the game is 3f normal characters vs. 4f normal characters. For example Laura has an extremely hard time mixing up 3f normal characters, but 4f normal characters she can always meaty them.)
So I tested the courching jab again and there were a few times it got through, i’m going to cough it up to me probably not getting the st hk out on the earliest possible frame as there should be no reason for a discrepancy in my results. (the issue i was having with timing the jump attack was probably a result of this as well) So basically the only thing this is unsafe from is if they quick rise into a DP or something similar correct?
Regarding the st mp cr mp string I was just using it as an example of a block string. That thing gets beaten by 3 frame normals so if I see my opponent is keen on that I instead go to st mp st mk. AT least against Karin and chun as this beats it cleanly. problem is my pressure kind of dies there as there is nothing to cancel into.
Front page first post is the mp inferno into 5 frame safe jump and I’ve never utilized it till now. I’ve always thought that lower than 5 frame reversals were pretty common but i guess not. this has helped me a lot with pressure jsut by applying that setup, your front throw corner setup, and just frame traps. If they are keen to block, then I just throw all day. Most opponents I face aren’t patient however and do like to tech.
I think competitvely these safe jump setups are going to be a huge part of the game for Bison, since he does not have great mixup tools imo (outside of grab or not).
As a quick resource, which characters typically have 3-4 frame reversals anyway? I can only think of Ken and Cammy
Necalli’s got at least a 3f one but it’s without invincibility afaik. Not sure if his i+frame one is 4f or 5f.