Low tier generally can’t touch Circle of Swords, so Spiral would get free screen coverage for no meter.
That list above is sleeping on Dhalsim. And Morrigan for that matter.
It’d be interesting to see how low tier tournaments with the ratio system versus a straight ban on mids and gods play out. My bet is they’re a hell of a lot more interesting with the straight ban in effect.
This is an oldish debate at this point, so i’m hesitant to even start it up again, but How low tier are Doom/Cyke/Strider/Blackheart when they regularly win versus tops? The thing about the ratio format is that it simply sets up a new God tier. If you ban mid tier and allow Tron/Psy/CapCom you open up a free-for-all that gives ALL the leftover cast the tools to build winning functional teams. If you’re going to allow Tron in under the ratio system you may as well ditch that format, removing the math problem everybody has to work out prematch, and let all comers pair up with tron so that low tier gets bumped up and everybody doesn’t just hang back with Cyke or Strider.
For real though, the more low tier tournament action of any format, the better. so do it up and see how it runs with that ratio system, see how many cykes/striders/dooms make it to the finals and work out kinks from there.
Both Dhalism and Morrigan are hardly popular characters, especially around my area. And you have to consider that both of them are pretty hard to master. I think they should stay. Morrigan, like a slew of other people is only godly with the threat of tron. More on that later.
I don’t think the ratio system is practical in the hustle and bustle of a tournament. People come, expect to play a character and we have to spend thirty minutes telling them ratios and what-not. Something more straightforward is required.
I agree with the points brought up on the top assists and what-not, I guess my allowance of them hung around the fact i didn’t want to restrict people who actually like to play tron on point and, she prioritized by many other assists. I guess maybe its a personal thing too; if banned such assists people might accuse me of scrubbery or being a bitch or something. I’m torn on the issue.
I wonder though: what is the point? I understand the originator of such rules intends to motivate players to attempt to play with the other 52 characters (lol, maybe 49), but I feel players should be doing that anyway. I haven’t participated in many MvC2 tourneys, but from those who have, or have not, how many times did you find yourself playing an opponent with a team other than the majors?
What I meant by asking what the point of the ban was on the top 4, was that regardless of who you ban, rape can and will happen. There will be teams designed around killing an opponent quickly (exactly what I do with Akuma/Thanos/Ken). There will be teams designed around spamming a certain assist and then covering their ass for further spamming. There will be teams around chipping your health bar like poison while restricting your movement as much as possible. The strategies are still there when a person puts forth the time and effort. Same restaurant, different foods.
The main outcome I see is that where it would be nice to see other players play other teams of their choice outside of the majors, the Low Tier Rules enforces it. It’s kinda sad to have to, but that’s competition nowadays for ya where I, too, have been guilty.
That’s what I think, but I keep hearing experienced people who argue different.
By my own opinion, I believe the point of a low-tier tournament is
to eliminate the god-tier and their omnipresence; I’m sick of seeing these guys, we know what they can do and they’re not bringing anything new. And that’s boring.
promote a bit of balance. I personally think Marvel is more balanced with the god tier out of the picture and from what I’ve seen the Top and second tier would not become a god tier; they just don’t seem have the tools and advantages to boost them above everyone else. I’ve got no problem with tiers, and those below the big four are more obsessed over due to their assists rather than their point game.
Have fun. Who cares if Ryu can’t ASH (air shinkuu hadoken) x 5 like cable? So what if Morrigan can’t do Magneto stuff. People like them and have fun with them. Restricting god tier allows those people to not worry about competition and actually play a game.
I linked the low-tier matches on Preppy Site for a reason; skill-wise they were above decent level but they had so much fun. That’s part of the reason I quit CvS2 for awhile; it just gets so competitive sometimes I hesitate to call it a game.
At the same time, I want to keep bitching to a minimum in this tournament.
Every year or so somebody gets sand in their knickers about this and it’ll keep revolving back to the same old retread discussion again and again and again. You can keep talking until you’re blue in the face but the discussion is pretty much going to boil down to:
if you ban the Big 4, that elevates everybody else up accordingly. This is the easiest way to run a Low Tier tournament. You will then experience more extreme assist whoring.
if you ban Top Assists (plus or minus banning the Big Four), you can then elevate alternative assists (any of the lower tier anti-airs such as Ken/Guile/Sonson, for example)
point systems work a little better but you’re artificially limiting team selection for no really good reason
I would expect Big Four Ban low tier tournaments to devolve into Blackheart/Doom runaway pretty quickly. But maybe you have fun while it lasts. I have no idea why you’re going for this “low tier tournament” plan, but the specific criteria that have led you down this path should uniquely define for you how you want to go about what you want to do next. Asking other people for advice presumes they know your specific interests. Do you hate Cable? Do you hate rushdown? Do you hate losing? What’s led you here, and where do you want to go from this point? Only you know that.
This is all about what your local crew wants to have happen. As far as I’m concerned the easiest way to do this is just to ban the big four and be done with it.
Well, you bring up good points. As I said before, I don’t mind the top tier guys being elevated; that’s a fighting game for you. But I contest they still won’t have the god-like presence and tools of the big four, which should be a lot better.
Anyway the main point is to ban the top 4 and allow the rest of the cast to compete. FYI, my crew for the most part does not use top assists and top-tier; we pick who we like. For example, my friend Mike goes with Charlie, Zangief and Spiderman. And you know who I pick. I’m the only one who plays Blackheart, Dhalism and Morrigan BTW. It shouldn’t be too bad.
Well DjNocturnal, in your own opinion, how did T9 Low-Tier go? I’m still waiting for Hollow to post the matches he was able to record. What are your thoughts on how it went and what teams did you see in play?
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I actually left before it started, I think. I didnt record anything at all. Tripods are the reason I dont pull out my camera. As soon as I saw VDO’s crew with a tripod, I assumed they recorded everything, or at least alot of it. I did witness VDO’s first few rounds in the main marvel tournament and he was beasting.
we just had another low tier tourny at T9 , obviouisly justin wong won, Vdo came in 2nd and lawrence (a local canadian player) came in third
i forgot who else entered, but everything was nice and u got to see ppl using other characters, Which is the whole point of having a lot tier tournament in the first place
we used these rules, (Same as last years)
The teams allowed must follow the 4 ratio system and must have 3 characters on them. If you have a team with 4 ratios or less then it is allowed in the tournament. if your team exceeds 4 ratios then it is not allowed.
Ratio 2 Characters (combinable with Ratio 1 only):
Cyclops
Psylocke
Captain Commando
Cammy
Blackheart
Dr. Doom
Strider
Megaman
Iceman
Omega Red
Rogue
T.Bonne
djnocturnal or distalStimulus, whoever can, would you mind posting the low-tier (and even possibly some of the main tourney) vids in this thread after Hollow likely posts them in the T9 Results thread?
There was a lot of Doom and Blackheart whoring. The top 3 finishers didn’t use these characters but they have mad skills.
Justin used Cyclops/Gambit/Morrigan and some other team. I didn’t watch the finals but I think he also used Cammy/Charlie/Guile.
VDO used his usual Rogue/Colossus/Ken. He also tried using Wolverine/Bonerine/Ken in his first match but that team got raped. (he lost to Justin Wong and Lawrence)
Lawrence used Jill/Chun Li/Tron. (he lost to Justin Wong and made it to loser’s finals but got disqualified cause he had to play in another tournament).
I finished 4th or 5th using Cammy/Gambit/Son Son. (I lost to Justin Wong and Lawrence)
Branten used Jill/Blackheart/Son Son. (he lost to me twice)
Joker used Chun Li/Charlie/Doom (he lost to Justin Wong and Lawrence)
Alucard used Venom/Gambit/Colossus (he lost to VDO and Lawrence)
Neorussel used Megaman/Chun Li/Ken (he lost to VDO and Alucard)
That’s all that I remember off the top of my head. In the future, I hope they ban Cyclops, Doom, and Blackheart.
I have a question - when you say Doom and Blackheart whoring, do you mean overall, or where the players abusing these characters on the same team, or separately?
Also did you happen to see any lesser used characters? Like Hayato, Zangief, etc?
Have you really not played against Doom/Blackheart or Blackheart/Doom? I realize most of the good Blackheart players are hard to find, but … you’ll learn eventually, I guess. =\
