everytime i see this topic tittly i first think about someone who only bangs fat chicks becuz they have low standards,
anyways, assist banning unessesarily complicates things. Banning a character is good enough, no need to half ban them.
even if we allow capcom aaa and tron projectile assist, becuz we have banned the top 10-12 characters already, the game has become so UNbroken that the goals of a low tier tounrey will have been fulfilled.
The only way new standards are going to get into place is if everyone starts playing it like that. I would like to know what the NEC low tier rules this year were if anyone has any info on it. If you like low tier and think the rules are fair, start playing by them and pass it on.
I’m pretty happy with the way we play low tier here in pkola. Its balanced and there’s no bitching about who’s mid tier. Its pretty much black and white and its still marvel. We actually have 2 sets of low tier rules but when its game time, we pick the tron version of our rules. Our other version of low tier is the same exact ban list and no tron assist.
when you think of trap characters in marvel, only 2 characters come to mind. Strider and sprial whom are top tier. Trapping in marvel is rare. There aren’t a lot of trap players nor are there a lot of trap characters to choose from so that side of marvel in the low tier aspect is going to get nerfed up a bit but there are a few trap characters left. Its the design of the game and not the actual rules.
I’m definitely jealous of the little scene you guys have goin in FL, its hard enough to find comp in my area let alone someone who plays oddball style.
I digress. What Magnetro said about the XX/Doom/Tron variety of ‘low’ tier rings true in that that particular duo is enough to push a character like Venom or Juggernaut into something that can beast if your basic skills (blocking/mixups/etc) are top tier. But the fact that Doom/Tron/Xx competes with anything is enough to warrant a Doom ban because not only does he let any low get a lockdown situation started, hes also deadly enough solo that he could make a lot of comebacks.
I think that its a priority when throwing these rules up for discussion to remind people that the idea isn’t to create a team thats gonna be competitive in a regular tournament, but instead to create a fresh slate and start to explore the depth of the game from the bottom. To discover the tiers again and pick up those 'jump around" skills and figure out strategy all over again. Its gonna add layers to everyone’s game…
I just came back from cf, for anyone who doesn’t know it has a pretty damn good marvel scene. a bunch of people for a little bit did low tier casuals. I was like ok cool so I play some. this one kid, whether he was too good or not, had a Charlie Guile Ken team. that was beast. then he switched it up to charlie guile tron/mando whenever he lost to a certain team.
just something to talk about…
300lb eugene plays some beastly low-tiers. He OCVed me with ken once I think. Ken’s SRK is possibly the best onpoint AA move in the game.
No need to bann the whole character, just that particular assist! As its the only thing about said character that gives them a notable advantage over average. Those players out there who like to use those characters even without the assist, won’t be left out either.
And a low-team backed by one of the top-assists, like T-bone or commando, is NOT a “low-tier” team at all. Chun-li&Cammy w/tron backup for example? Shine that shit. Nothing but t-bone cheese there…
^^^
Honestly though, I’d put in a rough estimate that >50% of people are going to lose interest with a ban on Tron assist. Yes its broken, but it fixes the rest of the cast! IMO there’s 2 major assists that break low tier characters wide open-- Tron and Doom-- and of the two characters, Doom is the only one thats broken in terms of point play within the proposed low tier character set.
With Doom its not even a matter of banning his assist thats a concern. The assist is fine just put a ban on runaway pink stuff. Obviously you can’t do that so Doom is out. Assists can only be so dangerous because you can shut them down with a little mental toughness.
Low tier is small enough so I’d say don’t alienate people building up Tron squads bc thats most of low tier marvel right there.
First off, with top/god-tiers being gone, there is no need for T-bone assist to “fix” the rest of the cast.
Second, Dr.Doom is definitely one of the top chars so in a low-tier setting he’d be GONE.
No way. The whole point of a low-tier tourny/setting, is to be rid of the broken shit, and T-bone assist Easily fits that bill and should be thrown out too.
It won’t kill anyone to jump into the fray without the security blanket of the t-bone assist either, they’ll live lol. Also what do you mean by “low tier is small enough”? 90% of the cast is lower-tier, so there are plenty of options available.
At my arcade i consistently play Charlie/Ryu/Bison, a lower team without any above average assists, and i can do pretty well with it. Even against those who try to spam me to death with stuff like strider/tron.
If that last part is true, then what are you worried about? there are assists that beat tron. Cleanly.
SM, gambit, psy is a good anti-tron team for example.
Just saying that in a truly lower-tier, unbroken gameplay setting, Tron’s proj. should be thrown out along with the rest of the top assists.
(the character should still be selectable though, just not with the assist in place)
Just stumbled up on this thread. I don’t know what is being done at tournaments for low-tier rules, but it seems like people want to go too far IMO. I think if you just did the god 4 and IM/WM, that would be good enough. You have to cut this thing off somewhere. The idea is not to make sure everybody on the roster is super-viable.
Yeah, you might see a lot of S/D or Doom/BH taking over as the teams of choice, you might see a lot of Cyke and Tron assist, but that is OK to me. At least it is not god 4. Just eliminating that is as much of a game shift as I think is needed, less is more in this case. The stuff that’s left might be a pain in the a$$, but it’s not on the level of “needs to be removed from the game”.
I think of it as just trying to give low-tier a boost, not totally trying to fix Marvel.
There will always be people that turn to the next best thing on paper. That is a mindset thing and is unavoidable. I just hate to see 10 or 12 characters excluded trying to fight that. That’s my 2 cents.
ALL of the God & top-tiers need to be gone, or else there is no point to attempting to have a low-tier setting!
Blackheart & doom for example, can be absolute BEASTS in the hands of a decent player and easily hold their own against the 4 gods.
Plus BH & Doom paired together are almost as bad as anything cable & sent can do, with tons of crap flying at ya all day long.
You’ve never played against a decent BH & Doom team then…that shit will make ya cry…
A friend of mine occasionally picks that. In times like those i won’t even bother with my Charlie/Ryu/Bison team, theres just no point, i’ll only get spammed to death :xeye:
Yo True, when said low tier was small, i meant that the percent of the Marvel scene that has been vocal about introducing low tier as a separate event is small. Tron adds worlds of depth to the hi-lo mixups available to the low tier characters that can’t tri-jump and don’t have a decent overhead or those that have a mean overhead but can’t follow up for damage. Yes Tron is going to help the upper echelon of highly mobile low tier bums more than some, but Morrigan, Spidey, Rogue, Chun etc. are already at an advantage w/o Tron.
Nobody’s saying that Tron isn’t broken – becasue she is. It’s just too fun not to use because it rewards any character that can get that one hit. When a lot of people think low-tier, its synonymous with Tron team and thats because historically, Tron and bumsquads have gone hand-in-hand.
Also-- to me the point of a low-tier tourney is to get rid of the broken shit that you see every day, so I guess thats where our opinions differ. Marvel is forever broken, but low tier is going to be a remix thats all.
Some might say the same for cable/sent stuff, “too fun not to use”. Hey broken is broken, just get rid of it.
And low-tiers are quite capable of doing well without the security blanket of the t-bone assist. A little extra work & creativity is all thats required.
In that case it should definitely be gone, because i do see tron assist being used a LOT. Just as much as commando & Doom-AA.
This is why i refer to it as the “security blanket”, because all too often those who take a chance with low-tiers, usually pick tron to back them up.
put tron back up on maybe just until you guys get ya shit settled.
IMO, we REALLY can’t know about tron and mando (mando less so though) until we start enforcing this shit a little. tell everyone to try it out if you’re over someones house at a gathering or something.
True Grave : a security blanket as you call it would mean she’s broke in this format. meaning everyone’s gonna have her on the team. if this is true then buh bye tron. if not then she’s classified as a TOP-TIER ASSIST! don’t get the two mixed up. read the statement in the middle about it.
It is very simple: In a low-tier setting, allow tron as a playable character but just bann use of the broken assist. Done.
Like i said earlier in MANY cases where i see low-tier teams attempt to be played, tron is usually among them by default. And it is very much a top-assist.
“Security blanket” is just a term i came up with to describe those who are usually too afraid to pick low-tiers without tron there for back-up(if its not tron, then its someone like doom or capcom, but usually its tron).
while you squabble over it…we dont give a fuck.
it’s fun, and i get to see alot of good duos and solid teams, it’s just another angle.
with enough practice all this bitching about low tier w no tron vs low w tron will stop.
why? cuz you’ll grow some balls and pick that shit vs real teams. tron unlocks the offensive side of low tier marvel.
ecgief has pretty much owned this thread hard
How is Cable/Sent broken?
Low-tier marvel can live fine without tron. Wish you guys would stop acting as if lower-tier play without her is doomed to failure or something.
The lows can still kick ass without the backup of a broken assist. Take a chance people! A team with no cheap assists on it CAN still be successful…
…maybe not much against someone playing with the high/tops, but if you’re going to be that butthurt about losing a match here & there to a high-tier player. You might as well abandon low-tier use entirely and just stick with Highs.
eczangief said: “Nobody’s saying that Tron isn’t broken – becasue she is. It’s just too fun not to use”
Well some might think cable/sent are “too fun” not to use also. It does not mean they should be allowed either, into a low-tier setting that is trying to be free of high-tiers & brokenness elements of marvel. Just 'sayin.
Tron lets you play as Gief and actually win. Tron lets you play as Dan and win. Tron lets you play as Roll and win. An assist that makes the worst *playable *characters into something formidable is fine to me even if it solidifies the tiers w/in low tier.
I’m not whining, nor do I think low tier doesn’t exist w/o Tron. I’m being constructive. I think it just doesn’t feel hype enough without Tron. I see your point and I’m not losin sleep over disagreeing. Anyway, I laid out how I see the situation, and I’m done here.