Lol TAC’s…they’re so dumb I actually like them.
I found the vid that came to my mind during the discussion of “hard games” like dark soul/i wanna be the guy.
This is how I feel “hard games” are made today. Where its just choice in your movement. Its basically R/P/S
http://video.adultswim.com/robot-chicken/hall-of-memory.html
You might recall when I first talked to you about Dark Souls that this was my argument against it almost verbatim. I picked the game up a bit again recently and now that I’m further into it there’s some legitimately challenging stuff even when you know what to do. I mean there’s still the occasional “OH GOD HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW THERE WAS A GIANT DEMON AROUND THAT CORNER” and it is pretty annoying.
Have you actually played IWBTG though? Yeah there’s a lot of trial and error but at the same time even when you know what to do the timing and precision required is extremely strict. There’s a reason every time Floe says “I understand” that you’re about to witness about 500 more deaths. On that note though, how were old games any different from this? How many leaps of faith did you have to take in Mega Man? How many times did you have to choose between 3 paths in Gradius then realize you missed a powerup or just ran uncontrollably into a dead end?
You brought up the limited number of lives system before but that was less intended for difficulty and more as a workaround by the industry when they didn’t really know how to work game save files (or it was intended to steal quarters in the arcades). On one hand it’s a good way to increase the challenge by limiting the mistakes the player can make, but on the other hand it’s tedious and outdated; by throwing in a game over screen or whatever you aren’t adding any new challenge, you’re just forcing the player to repeat the same challenges they already overcame. Honestly SMB1 is one of the best examples of this: Last time I played through the game I hit a few game overs before finishing it, but then when I did finish it the results of the trial and error were so thoroughly ingrained in my mind that when I played through the “extra quest” or whatever (the hard mode after you beat the game) I cleared it without losing a single life. That trial and error R/P/S stuff has existed since the beginning. If that can’t be considered true difficulty, and neither can the precision and speed required by something like IWBTG…then what can? (Strictly talking about the challenge of the game itself and not the challenge of another player here).
Mah Bad Dawg
Also as much as I hate XF I also recognize it as being the only thing keeping Viper, Zero, and Firebrand from completely running the game. All of them can pull XF levels of stupidity without XF but it’s just easy to make a mistake, and with their low health and XF being in the game a single mistake means they are very dead.
XF is also the only thing giving some low tier characters a fighting chance. At least they get to random out 1 character if they get a lucky hit or air-throw. I don’t know whether that’s a good thing or not: On one hand, yay character diversity; on the other, fuck the derp.
Just play Marvel 2
joe, gimme a lift tonight <3? i learned actual spiderman combos and converts. lets see if i can actually pull them off in matches.
I’d love to if it actually had a scene. I started picking up the game when it got an XBL release but after a couple months I was like “wait, why am I bothering with this again?”
Also it doesn’t have Zero. Actually if TvC had a scene I would play that over anything honestly.
That’s the thing tho, Megaman you could SEE where you needed to land. All that was required was to jump on the very edge to make most jumps. As opposed to jumping into the great beyond and hoping you land on some tiny lil plateform. And right after that you could still continue playing the level, instead of moving inch by inch in fear of just random clouds/apples flying at u and killing u.
If a boss was hard, it was because of his pattern/power. And you COULD make it easier by finding his weakness. That was the challenge. In what I’ve seen from Dark Souls,
SPOILERS*
Spoiler
1 boss fight immediately begins with the boss ALREADY attacking/doing damage to you as the screen fades in from the black loading screen
That’s the POINT! Same challenges they overcame is part of it. Imagine just beating a hard boss/room that youve spent half hour on, constantly dieing and returning to this spot. Then you FINALLY beat it. Now you proceed to next level and continue, but then you die there or maybe the next level. Now you know what lies ahead but first you gotta OVERCOME the same challenge that you just had trouble with. Maybe you barely made it out with 1 hit left maybe. Just because you did it last time, may not mean you’ll do it this time.
Thus putting you right back in the same dilemma. Old games got progressively harder in that way, the more you die the closer you are to having to repeat your hurdles and hard parts.
Save games would ruin all of that, everyone would simply save right after every difficult part IN FEAR of having to do it again. Course saves are also needed in some games since its a big game (Zelda/Metroid/FF/etc)
No mario game is hard, I’m saying that right now lol.
…wat
[media=youtube]w3q82JR8hFY[/media]
This level contains the only element of a Megaman game that scares me. 1 hit lasers. Notice how they come in a short burst to demonstrate at the start kinda. Then half way through is the HARD part of the level, and constantly trying to get past them/knowing when itll stop is the challenge. If you get past them you still gotta FINISH the level or doomed to repeat it/over come it.
[media=youtube]EzxJgWbm_3I[/media]
Here’s a part of I wanna be the guy, now since both of these videos are of people playing games they know he may not DIE in this vid but you can see its a shit storm 24/7 trying to kill you.
That to me is not considered a “hard game”. It’s a game designed for masochist who wanna see how many times they can die in 1 room with no sense of accomplishment for the smallest feet.
Gamers today are so laxed due to easy games today. That any game that has some form of challenge can now be considered “the hardest game made this century”.
"There isn’t a save spot every 5-10 minutes of gameplay? NO ONE CAN FINISH THIS GAME"
lol
Sorry for late notice about this, but I can’t host this evening. I might be able to host for a weekend session if there is interest, and will post up if so.
The last guy that was posting thinking your London is our London was supposed to stop off in Amsterdam for some “Dutch Herbs”. If you see this guy ANYWHERE in your London, tell him to hurry the fuck up and get here with them. 
Shall we go to Huron or UCC tonight then?
Sorry but I can’t see how doing the exact same challenge you have already proven you are better than over again because of failing a completely different challenge can be considered adding to the difficulty. Putting checkpoints or saves too frequently is bad obviously because it’s basically like having an emulator save-state feature where you can secure your progress every time you inch forward successfully. There has to be at least reasonable difficulty to get from one checkpoint to the next. Once you clear a checkpoint though there is literally no reason to ever be forced behind that checkpoint. It’s like making a kid rewrite his Math exam because he failed his French exam.
Also did you really use an example from Mega Man 2 as the only example of something in a Mega Man game that scares you? Mega Man 2 is without question the easiest game in the entire franchise by a very significant margin. Do me a favour: start up Mega Man 1, select Guts Man’s level. Within the first couple of minutes you will see the exact leap of faith gameplay I was referring to. You have to jump to the next platform before it is even on screen in order to not die. As for those 1 hit lasers - those are very much trial-and-error if you have never seen them before; go the wrong way for even a fraction of a second and you will not be able to recover fast enough to not die. Then again that’s at least made up for by the fact that you (should) have multiple lives to work with.
Unless anyone suggests something else I’ll be at UCC around 6:30-7 tonight. Please post if you’re not gonna show so I know if no one is coming.
Oh and Ben I was wondering if there was any interest in going to Bison’s on Sunday.
I guess I wouldn’t mind hosting. Heading home now. Got 1 setup but lots of room for more
40 summit avenue, unit 54. Pm me if u need my phone #
I’ll be there (with a setup of course).
Cool. When shall I expect u?
also, wings at metro, $6.99 for 15. i think that’s happening tonight
I like how any example I think off TOP of my head your like “ppft did you really think of that one” lol
It’s the only thing that scares me in MM games
That’s opinionated lol.
That’s what you call leap of faith? The only optional direction when you come to a dead end going right nor option to go up. And even then as you fall down the hole the next screen shifts over and you can clearly see your path like 3 seconds before you move. If you actually die during those parts…
Exactly, if you die gotta do it again. And if you die AFTER those lasers, you gotta do em again. That’s what makes it hard and challenging. Just because u did it once, doesnt mean your now an expert ON those lasers
Around 7.
Drew we’ll continue this in person if you want, but just FYI I play through every MM game once every summer and 2 being by far the easiest is fact.
I honestly say 6 is easiest but that’s cuz its my fave. I also play them but I prefer an audience and speedrunning them for Chris and Matt when we have the chance.