Logan's Run: Dude on Roller Skates!?

Classic Fighting Games Marvel VS Capcom 2
1

When Wolvie gets juiced up its two-fold-- pretty much the scariest thing going and the hardest to control.

IMO mastering Wolverine in “Dude on Roller-Skates” Mode is Strider/Doom-like in terms of the amount of investigation involved. At face value the risk-reward is skewed to your disadvantage bc everything about his offense involves throwing his body around with non-stop normals for pressure strings.

At this point I think I’ve leveled up my Logan to 40% or so of his potential, and already he’s doin things nobody else can touch-- most of which involve his dash momentum being too much for Mahvel to handle, spitting him out in random spots. The ace up his sleave is a setup to magically switch sides on blocking opponents, giving you midscreen sandwich pins all day.

Basically sounding out the call for other heads who’ve let Speed-up mode alter their brain chemistry to lash some shit together real quick.

I put most of what I know here:

Here’s what I’m working on/lookin for help with:

-An assist kill loop infinite a la VDO’s Rogue loop (launcher, air combo, finisher, relaunch etc)

-A way to link normals from a SJ Drill Claw consistently

-A way to consistently do HP corner infinite

2

Variation on Jap Infinite, aka The AMERICAN Infinite:

[dashing LP, cr.MP, MK] xN . The cr.MP juggles them, then the MK pushes them away so that the dash LP will link.

It’s pretty tough, a lot harder than the Jap Infinite which is already strict timing. I’ve done 5-6+ reps so it is an infinite. You have to use Forward, Forward dash input only, because you’ll cancel to a heavy otherwise. I’ve had the most success on Storm, Captain Commando, and Magneto, but it works on the majority of the cast. Doesn’t work on Sentinel and possibly other fat characters. The smaller and lighter the better.

**
Possible uses:**

-‘scoop’ up grounded opponents back into an infinite. OTG -> Infinite.

-to switch from Jap to USA infinite to get a different juggle effect for various resets

-to bring them to the corner from mid or 3/4 screen

-catch falling/dead state enemy after an assist or counter hit

-demonstrate a general mastery of timed normals

You can always opt out of the infinite by doing a full rep dash LP, c.MP, MK, MK, c.HK. This puts you behind them similar to how a c.HP puts you opposite side after a Jap infinite rep. Offers a new variety of resets and options since you are able to manipulate the screen and use your momentum to fake em out. Looks possible to switch seamlessly between the standard infinite and the dash infinite for style plus reset potential.

On Storm and Morrigan, maybe others, you can do simply [c.LP, c.MP] xN, since they are small/don’t pop as high.

Also, you move across the screen at such a fast rate that you can recall a couple projectile assists mid-infinite before either one hits as you rush across the screen. I’m working on a Wolvie/Son-son Monkeys rush-down that takes advantage of this. The basic idea is that you cover yourself from a botched input with staggered monkeys which you can use to set up another mixup. Lots of possibilities with this, an interesting one would be to let them drop from the infinite, then use c.LK, c.LK to try and trip them, on hit Monkeys OTG, if they roll, recall some Monkeys, if they block go hi-lo, repeat.

3

Falling Reset Loop:

I think a major strength for Wolvie is that after an air combo, he has the ability to put himself in tough to read/ambiguous positions as he falls.

Falling Reset on Magneto/Cable-sized dummy:

**Launcher, sj LP, sj LK, sj LP, sj LP, pause to break combo, sj HK just before you pass them, hitting them crossup with the second (late hit-box) part of attack. **

AFAIK, what happens is the momentum of the sj HK occurs as if you hit from the original side because technically you press HK before you cross-up. This lets you remain close while the cross-up hit bounces them off the ground and you can relaunch or go into some options.

Basic options are…

… jump straight up plus Tron
… hold forward/back or dash to pick a side to mixup on
… relaunch into the same option
… assist plus activate speed-up

You can get flashy and try to tag, or super instant DHC if you think there’s a good chance they block wrong.

Once they get wise to what you’re trying, here’s some **alternatives to the Loop:
**

Launcher, sj LP, sj LK, sj LP, sj LP, sj LK (all max delay) xx Drill Claw Up… This sends them flying and you auto-dash into Wolvie’s butter zone.

Or you can add an air throw try during the Loop itself

Or you can cut the loop short mid-air and just do the d+HK drop to land first. If it connects, you can call an assist to help relayer with. You have the option to Drill Claw at any point. After the DC you can always DP+KK xx DHC to save yourself.

4

Momentum Tricks

Speed-Up Momentum Tricks:

Standing HK:

On hit, Spd-Up dashing HK causes an interesting effect. The extra momentum gained from speed up mode causes his sprite to pop through the enemy, then slide back a split-second later. In terms of what the game ‘sees’, this one hit puts you first on front-side, then on cross-up side, then back to the front.

You can manipulate this by choosing which side you want to air combo on (allowing you to bring them to the closest corner). Similarly you can pick which side you want your assist to drop on. This enables you to setup different kinds of relayer opportunities.

**
Crouching HK:**

Cr. HK is one of Marvel’s most bizarre normals in speed-up mode. Using the dash momentum gained from speed-up, its actually possible to dash cr.HK right through a BLOCKING opponent. It doesn’t make contact, but it does enable you to warp through and land sneaky cross-ups bc speed-up Wolvie recovers so damn fast. You can even use it to apply pressure, then drop an assist plus glitch cr.HK cross-up followed by more pressure strings from the opposite side.

It’s worth noting, that you get a more dramatic warping effect whenever the opponent is pinned by your assists’ sprite, as you’ll warp through both characters. Looks very weird, I’ve got some setups that use Zangief Air Throw assist (whiffed) to create some funny infinite to warp resets.

5

its a shame that no one posts here besides you.
they all play that damn msp.
but try this team, WOLVIE/THANOS:
on speedup mode, he can dash under an opponent with d.hk, after d.mp for a reset.
ex:
speedup, dash/run, lp, lk, d.mp, d.hk(on other side), d.lk, d.mp, call thanos bubble, d.hk(on other side) (opponent gets caught in bubble), dash in, lp, d.lk,d.mp, d.hk, (other side) d.lk, d.mp, hk, sj.lp, sj.lk, sj.mp, sj.lp, sj.lk, drill claw u/f.

when you do d.hk after d.mp, you end up on the other side of the opponent.
so this combo is to be used smart…not often.
you should see the look on your opponents face when you straight mind fuck them with wolverine…lol
gonna go practice some more.

6

ahahaha. I had a feeling you knew your shit. I think with Speed-Up ppl get confused by the momentum and just how generally difficult it is to control him. So this is just gonna be where I jot stuff down to be used for a video breakdown.

First I’m gonna do some Solo Tricks, then a straight Wolvie/Tron breakdown where I go through a series of option trees with and without Speed-Up…

I’m familiar a bit with [media=youtube]6YInYp3CoYM"[/media] Ha, I saw Thanos glitched in your vid and I thought you’d DHC to it or something :].

7

to let out the sun after its glitched, all you have to do is dash backwards.

8

or do qcfK. or just hit Jab iirc lol.

And he can have a ridiculous number of glitched Powaaas stuck to him at the same time.

9

Tron Only Juggle Setup:

There’s a setup against Tron that I haven’t been able to replicate on any other character.

**cr.LK, cr.LP, d+HP (hits Tron cross-up), jumping magic series, Drill Claw **

Interesting since Tron’s fat hit-box and low weight let’s you create a non-Speed-up juggle from the d+HP. This also leads to…

Wolvei/Tron Tag Out Infinite:

Found a tag-out infinite for Wolvie/Tron. Right now I’m only doing it on other Trons, but there’s a chance it could be expanded to work on other fat characters with some better timing.

**cr.LK, cr.LP, d+HP xx Tag Tron, [ HK Rock xx Tag Wolvie, d+HP xx Tag Tron] xN **

10

Bonerine and wolverine can both combo tag ins from d+ Mp, D + Hk or d + HP

You can tag in alot of char.
sent ( s Lk juggle after tag, mk, HSF), IM, Ken, chun etc…

Can’t tag in storm, Thanos, or Ruby - may be a few others - they all miss
Cant tag combo on cable, sent, BH - a few others

Never thought about tagging Tron. Sounds like a hella tight Inf.
EDIT - eczangief - it won’t work on fat characters - only TRon and collosus let you combo the tag in.

11

wow, this is some good shit.
i’m gonna start to practice some more as of tomorrow.
i love my low tier, but playing these guys in ny, i have no choice but to play top tier to have a chance at winning which sucks.
glad some people still appreciate them.

12

Hey Augmint, thanks for your info, I’ll look for your Wolvie posts in the archive. I forgot about Colossus having that ‘wide’ hit-box, good to know there’s at least one other character I can flex on :nunchuck:.

I actually got it to work on Storm, but only for 2-3 reps and only in the corner.

I bet that Tron-only juggle setup might work on Colossus also. Edit: It doesn’t work for me yet.

13

You could also try using d + HK instead of d + HP.

Re momentum on s Hk speed up - I think you can do similar stuff with speed up dashing HP and drones - where he briefly goes behind them.
Wishing my DC hadn’t died.

14

hmmm

pin series with wolvy+tron, activate speed up, instant overhead mixup, drill down, infinite, combo into d.fp so it allows a tag to combo, and tag into a character with an infinite.

If you wanted to keep it low tier, slapping ken on there wouldn’t be a bad idea I think. Pretty sure you can rom after a tag and fuck, you can combo into the damn thing. The question is how hard is the timing on the characters that matter? If its easier on sentinel, ughhh its already kind of rough enough when speed up wolvie is on him.

This character is way to hard to control when he’s juiced up.

15

i dont think so.
if you already know his moves before speedup, then multiply it by 2 after speedup.
twice as fast.
jumps twice as far.
seriously, i stay in fuckin speedup mode…rush, rush, crossup allday.
just gotta figure out how to fight sentinel

16

Im noticing that Sentinel is too heavy for any obvious setups with the cross-up d+HP xx Tag, so its actually harder-- goes against what I assumed would be the case.
I’ll have to look more at d+HK juggle and hitbox properties, but I don’t think the hitbox is long enough to hit characters on the backside and get that weird juggle allowing the tag.
The tag-out infinite IS viable at least as a 3-4 rep semi-infinite in the corner versus Mag/Storm and others. So its basically 5-Fierce++ damage with the option to tag to a Rom.

C’mon though W-master, you gotta admit that Speedo mode is a steep learning curve. I had played nothing but speed-up for a few months before I stopped playing last year, and only in the last month have I been able to start to put some reigns on this hooligan.

As far as execution pointers, I practiced using the claw method to do the Speed-up standing Infinites and dashing LK, LK, LK pressure until I learned the recovery numbers. Now Im practicing some harder, but more practical infinite options as well as learning to respect neutral and not get QCF motions when doing dashing back and forth feints. Another thing is to work through the subtleties of how Logan’s normals effect the different characters, especially pertaining to juggles and learning how to stagger SJ Air combo hits to allow sj.HK’s second hit to whack different characters in the back on the way down since its a different amount of hits and different timing for various sprites.

I’m still trying to figure out a way to combo from the Speed-up start-up hitbox into some gnarliness with a solo Wolverine, but I dont know if its possible yet. There’s also a chance that Logan has a just-frame or close to it rejump infinite in the corner v. Tron, but if he does its combo-video only.

Lets talk about some hypothetical teams? I think VDO’s Sonic and Knuckles squad is really good, and whoever that player is that runs Japanese MSP aka Wolvie/Wolvie/Thanos has a lot of stuff I’m gonna add to and steal.

Sonic and Knuckles: Vdo’s so RUTHLESS with counter-hit to BnB with bothe Wolverines and lmao at never seeing him even use Speed-up mode. Invincible AAA would be so fake at protecting in and out of speed-up strings and baiting things out. Ken definitely anchors a double-Logan squad more than anything else I can think of. Claw Slide assist is cheap stuff too with another Logan to contend with.

Jap MSP: I’d be putting Spd-Up Logan on AA to at least mash out and trade with Bonerine or Thanos on point, Bonerine on Scoop, and Thanos on Bubbly. Gameplan is all about hitting up scoop assist into Bubble relayers by way of air combo or otg into forced dash setups. Speedin’ up at 2.5+ bars behing bubble. I think this team really needs Wolvies’z (both of em) to have all kinds of assist kill options to be fully realized. Stuff like, Launch, LP, LK, LP, late LK, Relaunch or same setup late HK or HP and try to catch them back on the bounce. I’m convinced there’s some dumb stuff for chipping away at assists.

17

lol
i said that because you’re not a beginner
you prolly know more than me…i love combos.
my eyes catch on quick to certain shit.
but like i said, i WILL be coming up with something soon.

18

haha i was just agreein with shoultz that this fool is hard as hell to control. Lets put reigns on this crack-fiend.

19

I’ll be in training mode later on today messing around with him for a bit and I’ll post what I manage to find. It’ll probably be some basic functions about speed up since that seems to be staple of his game play.

Of course, I believe in low tier + tron so don’t expect much of anything else other than wolvie ron stuff.

20

Infinites in progress vid

[media=youtube]09qa9V92RfY[/media]

Wolvie/Tron has a ROM now, timing is a bitsche.