I can’t conjure footage from non archived streams, I’m not a wizard
Yes he did play bad. He did a full screen devil’s reverse into suicide.
Neurosis goes MIA, beats Daigo and some others and nobody says a thing.
made this back then ( Japan only though )
things have changed + I will be making a new comp soon
Hagejin vs snakeeyez
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP9wDcOZev8
Spoiler
For emil’s viewing pleasure
The mirror is ass at determining who’s the better player, Zangief has a way to fuck himself up that happens in few mirrors.
Fuck the mirror.
The mirror might not be indicative but when you add in the fact that Hagejin has defeated Daigo, Momochi and other top players while Snakeyez has not only lost to them but also doesn’t have that level of competition on a regular basis, I think it is clear who is the better Zangief.
Mirrors really don’t count for shit, “but when you add in” nothing, nobody claims Xiao Hai is better than Daigo for beating him in the mirror yet he has done it more than once. The matches themselves were really damn close too, it could have just as easily ended 5-2 Snake Eyez.
Yes, so far Hagejin’s record vs Daigo and Momochi is 1-0 against both of them, but he might as well get destroyed by them in the A League. Snake Eyez had a record of 1-0 vs Momochi once as well.
Hell, I even think Gief is not as clear cut as other characters, Snake Eyez, Hagejin and Itabashi all have different styles (Defensive, balanced and offensive respectively) and do well vs different players just like how it goes with Bonchan, Santaro and Gachi-Kun. Snake Eyez beat Santaro yesterday, btw, along with Kawaguchi, Akahossy and R. He only lost to Hagejin and Dashio.
Snakeeyez also beat Mago, Tokido and Bonchan. He lost to Fuudo and Kazunoko
He also dominated Eita (With his Gief at least, not so much with ERyu :P) and beat Machabo and went damn near even with Nemo.
Emil’s just gonna ignore this and/or act like 1 set doesn’t matter (even though he’ll use a similar argument to prove why a Japanese player is better). It’s basically pointless trying to argue with him, whether you have proof or not (although I would like to see some proof as well, even though I have no reason to not believe you guys.)
For real he’s 2-0 vs the best sagats in the world?
Gief favored matchup
His twitter says he lost to Bonchan and Mago but he beat Itazan and Tokido. Then he says he had a long set with Bonchan but he didn’t keep score.
He also said he saw Zangitan at the arcade going crazy, but no details.
It’s disturbing that Snakeyez calls himself the best Gief in the world on his own twitter page…
Well Mago calls himself a 2d god
Nobody can say 801Strider is a better Abel than Shiro without lying.
Tokido calls himself Murderface.
We now gonna argue based on the stupid nicknames people give themselves?
This thread is also fucking retarded.
The game has 44 match-ups. Who of you can say of himself how strong every single player is in every single match-up?
The only way we have in order to quantify the perceived skill of players, are their tournament results.
There’s no doubt in my mind that Zangitan or Hagejin might be better than SnakeEyez.
But that’s a big might for me because unless they prove otherwise in international competition, Snake is the best Zangief in the world in my book.
I always forget about Zangitan, but iirc he has the best points to win rate ratio of any Gief in Japan, so he would be the best by Emil logic even though I never see him place high in japanese tournaments (does he even go to any?)
If I were to rate who I think were the best Gief players just from match footage (not results)
1: Hagejin
2: Snake
3: Zangitan
4: Cantona
5: Itazan
Honorable mentions go to pre-USF4 Carlos and Yajirobe.
While even though I would consider Hagejin to be the best and most well rounded, and Zangitan/Cantona to be better than Itazan, I would bet on Itazan and Snake to place better more consistently in tournaments. Snake because he has the experience, adaptation, and that “it” factor where he can make a lot of comebacks that don’t seem possible; and Itazan because he has good tech and takes a lot of risks that ends up working well for him a lot of the time.
So yeah, if you want to ignore tournament results (which is the only real way to determine who is the best at that point in time), is going to be a lot harder to determine who really is better, since matchup knowledge and player familiarity will inevitably vary.
The reason these debates occur is because of statements that don’t make sense…like this one.
Snakeyez had never traveled outside of the US(ignoring Canada Cup) until a few weeks ago. Why can Hagejin be criticized for not traveling, but not Snakeyez?
While Hagejin also hasn’t traveled outside his country, it is undeniable that his competition is way above that of Snakeyez. He can walk into an arcade at any time and find master level players. Hagejin has a lot more to show for himself. The fact that people are not paying attention to Hagejin because they’re stuck in their US bubble, shouldn’t take anything away from him.
The thing is, facing better competition doesn’t mean you yourself are a better player, even if that’s the case 90%of the time. Daigo/Tokido/Fuudo are always playing the best competition in the world in an offline seeing where they can very easily discuss matchups and share tech, yet Gamerbee/Xiaohai/Infiltration consistently place better than them in recent tournaments (and usually end up eliminating then in said tournaments) even though they have to get all of their practice from locals (who likely aren’t as strong as the Japanese arcade monsters) or online play which involves lag and much harder communication.
There is more to it than just who you play against, even if you’re playing against the best in the world. Think about it like the WNF crew: they were constantly playing against each other, attending the same locals every week, and traveling to tournaments outside their area; however, Snake Eyez was the only player actually doing shit (filipinoman to a lesser extent) and that’s with a character who is worse than pretty much everyone else who played there. Basically, I’m saying you can be doing the exact same things as the other top players, but that doesn’t mean you are going to be one yourself.
Yeah I know that, but in the case of Hagejin, he has wins over top players, as well as a reputation from those top players. Hagejin doesn’t really have to dominate them, just to go roughly even with them and he does.
Xiaohai doesn’t place consistently better…as for Gamerbee and Infiltration, I associate that with the fact that they usually counterpick to get past players they would otherwise have a very hard time against. It’s starting to become a very common trend that leaves a bad taste for me and I’m sure for many players at the tournament.
Counterpicks are a problem now? I saw Momochi counterpicking at EVO you know.
People can’t get over the fact that Hagejin beat Daigo and Momochi but Snake Eyez was 1-0 vs Momochi at one point too, has beaten a good amount of top players over the past years (jesus fuck he got fucking 4th at EVO) and Hagejin beat them in the patch with the best Gief ever while iirc Snake Eyez didn’t play them with that Gief in tournament.
You also can’t talk about Snake Eyez only going to US tournaments because Hagejin doesn’t even go out to japanese tournaments, he beat Daigo and Momochi once and that was it.