To be fair, I didn’t regard Strider over the better japanese Abels (Nekojita and Ojisanboy) either. Good to know he’s that solid.
Knuckledu, Infiltration, Strider were all born in SFIV and are fucking amazing, yet I still suck. God dammit.
Shiro is attending a CPT-event here tomorrow (possibly joining for casuals tonight too). If his English is good enough I can just ask him who he thinks the best Abel is.
I’m not gonna lie, I didn’t think Strider was that highly regarded either. I’ve always known he was a good Abel since super, and I thought he was the best American Abel when everyone was still on Juicebox’s nuts, but I really didn’t consider him to be a huge threat until CEO. Before then, I was under the impression that iPeru wad the best player or if that area, but he’s fallen off a lot so that’s obviously not true anymore.
Regardless, Strider has leveled up a lot the past year, and I think it’s OK to consider him one of (if not THE) best Abel’s in the world. It’s clear that he has a great grasp on the game, and he its also very obvious that he implements a lot of tech in his game just by watching his matches. Take his match against smug the other week, for example. Smug, a player that even the best in the world (except Daigo) had problems with, was DISMANTLED by strider. He punished basically every single mistake smug made, and put on a reacted almost without fail, to every one of Dudley’s focus attacks, with a backdashing into stepkick combo. I think that’s the first time I’ve ever seen anything like that in the history of the game. He’s really good Emil, but of course you love that small knob-like penis, so you’re going to defend those that give you pleasure.
Saying Snakeeyez placed “nowhere” at Tokyo Gameshow is a bit misleading.
Here are well known top ranked players Snake placed equal to or higher than
Tied:
Daigo
Uryo
Reiketsu
Human Bomb
PR Balrog
Nishikin
Kindou
Placed Higher:
Eita
Shiro
Laugh
Kyabetsu
StormKubo
In addition when you look at the matches played Snakeeyez had two matchups harder than Itazan
Snakeeyez had to play AiAi’s Juri, easily one of Zangief’s worst matchups. Then he played Inco Rufus which is slightly in Gief’s favor last I checked, but not significantly anymore.
Itazan faced Hoodaman, a westerner which in your book is an automatic lower level player, and Honda is pretty close to an even MU in USF4 AFAIK. Though I think the LP GH nerf might have hurt it. It’s slightly Honda favor or even thanks to EX HB nerf, at least that is my understanding.
Itazan then lost to Mago’s Yang, one of Gief’s best MUs. Then lost to Bonchan, arguably Gief’s worst matchup, tied with Juri is my understanding.
Simply by the draw of having AiAi first vs Hoodman first Itazan had a huge advantage going into the tournament.
At Final Round 18 Snake ranked top 8 while Itazan was top 24 and in general Snake had equal or harder MUs, at least from what I’ve heard from Gief players. I don’t have experience to say how the MUs play.
Snake first round was vs Arturo’s Dhalsim (loss) - unfavor MU
Itazan played Smug Dudley (won) - favor MU
Snake played K-Brad Chun (won) - very unfavor MU (but K-brad is hardly a Chun player)
Itazan played Hiro Bison (lost) - favor or even MU)
Itazan played ChrisT Ken (lost) - even MU
Snake played ChrisT Ken (won) - even MU
Snake played Bonchan Sagat (won) - very unfavor MU
Snake played Arturo Dhalsim (loss) - unfavor MU
And that tournament also had a decent amount of Japanese representation, not a crazy amount but a decent amount.
Daigo, Momochi, Fuudo, Kazunoko, Bonchan, Mago, Itazan, Tokido and a Gouken named Lingo I’ve never heard of.
EVO2014 Snake actually played several of the same MUs as Itazan as well as playing generally stronger players on the non-same player matches. Tokido, Fuudo, Kyabetsu, Luffy, and Dieminion are all arguably the best players of their characters while Hung, Filipino Man, and Chi Rithy are maybe 3rd or 4th at best. Plus the fact that other than getting a Chun Itazan’s actual characters MUs were tied or easier than Snakes.
Snake v Kyabetsu (Viper) - Won
Snake v Tokido (Akuma) - Won
Snake v Xian (Gen) - Won
Snake v Dieminion (Guile) - Won
Snake v Fuudo (Fei) - Loss
Snake v Ricky Ortiz (Rufus) - Won
Snake v Luffy (Rose) - Lose
Itazan v Chi Rithy (Chun) - Lose [this is admittedly a terrible match to start your run on but on the flip side, as you’ve noted, he probably plays better Chuns in japan. Chi is not in Vivi’s league IMO]
Itazan v Hungbee (Hawk) - Won
Itazan v Xian (Gen) - Won [same match as Snake]
Itazan v Filipino Man (Rose) - Won [Luffy is clearly a superior Rose in all fairness but that’s still an excuse]
Itazan v Ricky Ortiz (Rufus) - Lose [another MU Snake played though Snake Won]
What you might notice is that in these tournaments Snake is usually getting harder MUs. Also there is obviously the concept of homefield advantage for each player. Snake has more experience vs the western players that Itazan is losing against that Snake is winning (ChrisT and Ricky Ortiz) while Itazan is going to have more experience vs the japanese players he plays against. Not getting a chance to play a specific player often gives you less advantage going into the match because you don’t know their style, Inco plays very different than Ricky or Justin for instance. If Snake had the opportunity to play Daigo/Momochi/Mago/Ect as often as Itazan does Snake of course would do much better vs those specific players than he does currently. Just as Itazan would do better vs ChrisT or Ricky if he had the opportunity to play them as often as Snakeeyez does.
In addition I’d like to point out that at Final Round 18 Snake beat Bonchan while at TGS Itazan lost to Bonchan so the whole Itazan v Sagat superiority being absolute is questionable.
The idea that Snake sucks vs Japanese players is also questionable
First attack 2015 - Snake eliminates Pugera
CEO 2015 - Snake beats Pugera
Final Round 18 - Snake beats Bonchan
SXSW 2015 - Snake beats Tokido
EVO 2015 - Snake beats Reiketsu
EVO 2014 - Snake beats Kyabetsu and Tokido
CEO 2014 - Snake beats Akimo
This is only USF4 though.
If you look through results of international tournaments, as well as actually watch the matches of Snakeeyez the ones he has the trouble with are actually European players not japanese unless your name is Momochi or Kazunoko who EVERYONE has trouble with.
I don’t consider Itazan the best Zangief…however, I think he is often discredited, so I talk about him.
The list is only random if you are uneducated on the scene…I mentioned AC Revenger not because I think he’s one of the best Abels now, but that he was a big name in the past and yet most people probably never heard of him. It’s time people did some research on say, the top 5 ranked players in japan arcades, then went to nicovideo and watched their matches…especially if those viewers use the characters that those players use.
Do you really think putting him on the spot like that will get you a meaningful answer? Do you think Daigo will say he’s the best Evil Ryu or Momochi will say he’s the best Ken?
And for the record, I’ve been disappointed with Shiro’s results lately, but not necessarily his play.
Do you guys know that Machabo(the guilty gear player) is considered one of the best Fei and Evil Ryu in Japan and he hardly plays the game? In addition, he beat Nemo in a ft50(or something like that).
I think asking people who play characters who they think the best players of those characters are gives a much better representation than your method of ignoring all data that doesn’t conform to your biases.
classic emil lmao why do people even respond any more
And then when you ask a Dhalsim player…to check out Darui or Torimeshi, they often respond that they’ve never heard of them. So no, asking people is not a valid method unless they happen to be educated on the world scene.
[citation needed]
Who are you asking? Joe Shmoe never placed at a weekly Dhalsim? You ask top Sims like Arturo, YHC Mochi, or FChamp I’d bet you 5 bison dollars they’ve not only heard of Darui or Torimeshi but likely have studied many of their matches. I remember people discussing Darui not that long ago actually, I think it was because of his #1 placement in the Topanga Single Elim Fukuoka tournament.
I’d bet even LuckyD has heard of one of them if not both.
Apparently Snake just beat Machabo’s Fei 10-8 with Gief and beat Eita 10-8 with Snake playing ERyu, went 9-10 v Nemo (Gief v Rolento), lost FT5 1-5 to Eita (Eryu - Akuma), Won 5-0 v Eita in next FT5 (Gief vs Akuma first 2 rounds then Ryu remaining 3) then they played some more with Eita just running Akuma but not a full FTX set but Snake was I think 5-4 or 6-4 when they stopped.
So your thoughts are that Shiro isn’t educated enough about the world scene to know?
FYI Itazan actually beat Filipinoman at EVO2014. Itazan eliminated Filipinoman 2-1 at EVO2014 and was in turn himself eliminated by Ricky Ortiz 0-2. Itazan also eliminated Luffy in EVO2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_b99GMesSg
It was pretty dang close between Itazan and Filipinoman though
Yep, but then in 2015 they met in losers quarters and FilipinoMan took him out: http://evo2015.s3.amazonaws.com/brackets/ssf4_f15.html
Shiro just won the major in Norway:
He lost and then beat Phenom(who people consider the best Bison, I don’t), beat Problem X twice, destroyed ProFluke in one of the most one sided sets I’ve ever seen and beat Gonzalez twice, from losers.
Who the heck says Phenom is the best bison besides the OP? It’s pretty much agreed, by most people I’ve seen talk about it, to be Gagapa and has been that way for a while. Phenom is good though.
Correction: he won a CPT-event. There were about 60 people signed up for SF4 iirc. Not to detract anything from his play though, it was some impressive shit on show, but calling it a major is probably a stretch.
Neither Shiro or Gonzalez seemed steady enough in English to hold a conversation, so I didn’t get to ask about who the best Abel was. =(
Also, in case anyone cares: I choked badly in pools, then went on to dust off my Fei Long in casuals (to surprisingly good effect, apparently I’ve gotten better in the year since last I used him) before beating up everyone that challenged me in 3rd Strike for a couple of hours. Today was a blast. =3
People on eventhubs and stream chat were saying he’s the best Bison. I don’t think Gagapa is either…Dogura just has much much more experience as a fighting game player than Gagapa or Phenom.
Except Dogura doesn’t play Bison any more as we’ve established several times so that is moot. Gagapa is the best Bison now. If you want to discuss Dogura you need to compare him to Nemo.
And what, you think he’s forgotten everything about the character? Daigo hadn’t played Ryu for a long time, then he used him at Stunfest and it was like he has been playing the character the entire time.
Dogura is such a strong fighting game player that he can pick up any character and immediately be good with that character. It did not take him that long to become strong with Rolento, or with Nu in BlazBlue. He hardly played Nu and got to grandfinals at Evo.
If you’re just trying to be technical in saying the comparison can’t be made because he currently isn’t playing the character, then that depends…but Dogura when he was playing Bison, was better than any past or current Bison player.
Except when we’ve seen Dogura pick Bison in USF4 it’s been out of desperation and he’s done horrible.
Might as well say Taku is best Blanka or w/e cause he was better than Nishikin 4 years ago.
You said this last time and when I asked for the footage…you didn’t provide any. I’d really like to see it. The last time I saw him pick Bison was against Valmaster…which he lost but didn’t necessarily play bad.