emil the new tali
Kitasenju DJ
Just remembered about Isy, but then realized this is USF4 only.
What ever happened to zangitan? That’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time.
You know…from the limited amount of matches Dakou had with Deejay, I liked his more than Kitasenju’s…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBOsaqFheQU
of course, the issue here is that Canada’s level is not that high and there aren’t enough matches of Dakou’s Deejay…but damn was this a blowup.
Also this KeijiN guy seems to be doing well recently but I haven’t watched him play so I don’t know how good he is.
evaluating a player’s skill when playing players who clearly don’t know the matchup is pretty hard.
Best Sagat is Xiao Hai since he actually beat Zangief.
Lol.
Best Hugo is Alex Valle since he beat Bonchan with him.
Regarding the best character specialists - I think there’s no better way of finding who that is than putting them against each other in a FT10 set
I really don’t think if we, say, put Itazan and Snake vs Bochan and see who wins - that does not necessarily mean one is a better specialist than the other. Both players have their own strategies and tactics, they utilize the character differently
Now when we see Itazan vs Snake - THAT’S when we find who is a better Gief since they will be fighting on equal footing
That’s like when Fuudo and Mago fought against each other in an exhibition FT5 match (there’s a recording of that on YouTube) - Fuudo came out on top, so he’s clearly a better Fei Long
Do you agree?
Not at all, just means they’re better in the mirror.
If you’re after something to concretely demonstrate who’s better I’d go with results, otherwise it’s something you have to look at each player’s game and see who uses the character to their fullest, whiff punishes, setups, damage optimization, matchup knowledge, a good amount of shenanigans, etc.
That, and the formats are different. Being good at bo3 does not mean you’re equally good at ft10.
Strider is the best Abel. You won’t find an actual Abel player that thinks any different. Shiro hasn’t even been the best Abel since Super or AE but he is of the “Pure Yamato race” so of course in Emil’s eyes he’s god.
Itazan isn’t better than Snake Eyes either, they are the same. He just plays more “wild” and makes bets that either win him games or causes him to lose them spectacularly, hence his relative inconsistently compared to Snake Eyes who is more footsies, spacing and patience based.
Oh please, Strider was never ever considered the best Abel before he got second place at CEO. He was just “one of the best American Abels”. In fact, some people considered Rico Suave to be on the level or better than Strider. You don’t just suddenly become the best in the world after one tournament. Shiro has much better technology and confirms than Strider and has been playing with the absolute best players since the Vanilla days.
Shiro hasn’t been doing too well lately against the best players but I’m sure Strider in his place would have also gotten last place at Topanga.
Nekojita might be better than both of them but we just don’t see as many Nekojita matches nowadays…
They aren’t the same, because they play very differently. Snakeyez is TOO footsie/spacing based. This isn’t always a good thing - in the case of Snakeyez, he doesn’t impose himself on the opponent that well. His option selects are not on the level of Itazan and I feel his matchup knowledge isn’t there either. I mean, why should his matchup knowledge be better or even on par with Itazan when his opponents are nowhere on the level of Itazan’s?
Also why the hell doesn’t Snakeyez use stand MP? Itazan has masterful usage of it and I just don’t see any attempt to apply it from Snakeyez.
If someone was learning Abel or Gief and they asked who is the best player to watch in order to learn the most about the character, it seems that Shiro and Itazan/Hagejin would easily be the best picks for that.
Snake Eyez started using far mp less when they buffed far mk and nerfed far mp.
Also Snake ends up with less opportunities to OS than Itazan based on playstyle. In AE2012 he would buffer OS much more for EX Hand, and also would EX Hand OS more in knockdown situations. Why the switch? He values RFC combos that much, and against slower reversals he’d rather block them than attempt to OS sweep the backdash.
It’s not that he doesn’t KNOW the options, he’s making a decision to prioritize safety, meter usage, and corner push over the os even if it favors him.
I mean he’s os u2’d me plenty of times, he knows whats up.
Snake is better than Itazan, I think you’re the only one not agreeing Emil. However, you are right that be does rely on spacing and patience too much (which is both a blessing and a curse). Its why he gets absolutely murdered by Daigo and Momo, because since they obviously have better footsies, he kinda becomes lost against them. Sure Itazan probably plays with them all the time, and thus knows their playstyle better, but I see him do much better against them when they play.
Except I don’t think that’s true. Itazan has a really good track record against Louffy, which Snakeyez has the opposite. Itazan does better against Sagats historically than Snakeyez. Itazan dominated Gackt Sagat and Fei, where I’m sure Snakeyez would not have based on his previous history. Against Infiltration, he clearly didn’t know the Hugo matchup whereas Snakeyez defeated the even better Hugo, Stormkubo. There are many other such cases, recent ones, that shows Snakeyez just isn’t ready to play the people that Itazan plays and does decent against.
If Snakeyez was in an all Japanese tournament, he would usually placed at the bottom. His track record against Japanese players is actually not good at all, I’m not sure where you guys are coming up with these results. Beating Sanford is not the same thing as beating the players that I’m talking about.
You don’t play the character or follow the up to date discussions buddy. Don’t argue, cos with due respect, you’re not fit to. Strider is the best Abel period right now. Shiro is our patriarch but hasn’t been the sole dominant representation of the character since he switched to Makoto and lost to Juicebox at EVO years ago. Nekojita, Makki and Shinba (who Strider beat at EVO) were also Abel gods after that and but now Strider is the best. This is universally agreed upon and isn’t derived from “one tournament” or whatever dumb shit you said. He’s consistently done better than any other Abel throughout the year.
As for SnakeEyez vs Itazan their differing playstyles simply means that in different situations, they play differently, not that one is better than the other. Ita can sometimes overcome people that SnakeEyez can’t ok, but SnakeEyez consistently places. Ita doesn’t. Arbituary Bo3 results citing who beat or didn’t beat who don’t count more than actual placement anyway, this is simple logic.
If we’re saying that there’s a critque that Snake could learn something from Ita on how to play against certain (mostly Asian) players or that he occasionally plays to rigid or scientific fine, but Ita doesn’t know when to turn off the random, not do wake up Ultra and slowly work back to clutch things out as well occasionally. Neither player is flawless, but neither is better than the other either. Opposite sides, same coin. You’re also insane or plain ignorant if you think that SnakeEyez doesn’t use OS lol.
Nonsense…universally agreed upon by who? By American stream monsters that started saying it when he placed well at CEO. No one was saying it before. Those stream monsters don’t even know who is Nekojita, AC Revenger or Shinba.
I want to be clear though, 801strider is a pretty good Abel…and he generally does well. He does not have the knowledge, experience and competition to be on the level of Shiro, despite Shiro not doing so well lately.
Consistently places where? Snakeyez did well at Evo but the placement of that tournament can vary greatly depending on the players you run into. The majority of Snakeyez opponents in general, are much lower level than those of Itazan or Hagejin, so how well he does in those tournaments is pretty misleading. Snakeyez placed nowhere at Capcom Cup and Tokyo Game Show, when the level was actually up to the standards of what Itazan often times plays against. And then you have Hagejin getting second place at Topanga…
If you’re going to make false statements like that, what’s the point of even having a discussion. I didn’t say he didn’t use OS, I said that his OS game is weaker…much weaker in fact. His technology and matchup knowledge is not on Itazan’s level.
Itazan went out from EVO by FilipinoMan’s hands, “I’m sure Snake Eyez wouldn’t be able to beat Gackt” isn’t even remotely close to proof that he wouldn’t beat him, on that same weekend where Snake Eyez lost to Infiltration Itabashi lost handily to Reiketsu while showing he didn’t know how to punish some things, while Snake Eyez beat Reiketsu at EVO. They both beat players that the other one loses to because they have different styles which give problems to different players, but Snake Eyez consistently gets better results.
Itazan also has less points than Snake Eyez while going to more tournaments with such strong competition like Abuget Cup or Saigon Cup.
I understand it’s your schtick to overrate japanese players but I laughed hard at Itazan’s “Masterful” usage of st.MP, that button was Gief’s best button in 2012, it was our most important button before the nerf and Itabashi would press 13 st.MP’s in a row once he cornered someone and in a lot of matchups he would just walk back and forth, that’s not “masterful usage”, that’s rightfully abusing a great tool and becoming super predictable on the neutral game, along his consistency issues that was Itabashi’s biggest problem before, he was just too predictable. Now it’s nerfed and everyone stopped using it as much (inclusing Itabashi).
I even find it strange that you use Itabashi for your argument considering Hagejin just got into Topanga A in a group with a Poison, Sagat and Seth in there but eh who cares if he won’t even go out to TGS or any japanese CPT event.
Agreed upon by those that study the character Abel, have dedicated group discussions with players like Keoma regularly discovering/sharing tech and matches as well as the FGC at large. Who said anything about stream monsters? Just stop talking. You’re in way over your head here. Shiro isn’t even the top ranked Abel in Japan right now Makki is and has been for 2+ years. Nekojita has been better than him since AE meaning you’re not only wrong regarding him being better than Strider but also on who the actual best JPN Abel is. Lol. Shiro was a Makoto player from AE in 2011 until Ultra and in that 3 year span he’s been overtaken as best Abel by Neko, Makki and recently Strider. It’s only in Ultra with certain buffs to Abel that he switched back, but he isn’t the best at all now. Top 5 yes, better than those mentioned, no. This is fact. Again **no one that actually plays the character ** or knows what they’re would disagree the statement.
It seems you just keep a random list of Japanese names of players so you can sound knowledgeable but don’t actually know what is going on on a character specific level. Proof of that is mentioning AC Revenger who has been nowhere near the best Abel in years. Also your nonsensical non-Japan bias and/or lack of knowledge is continually astounding. Saying stupid shit like 801 lacks knowledge when he basically put on a character specific display of new OS on his tournament runs (particularly CEO) this year makes you look retarded. He’s actually probably the ONLY American player that has expanded his knowledge to the level of the Japanese to incorporate OS tech, hence why’s beat the best Ken and Evil Ryu in the world in tournament this year alone and is the arguably the best representation of the character outside of Makki and Neko.
All in all if penis riding the Japanese is going to be your schtick and least do it for the right ones.